Bill to remove Confederate statues from Capitol
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Started by metmike - June 11, 2020, 6:10 p.m.

Black lawmakers unveil bill to remove Confederate statues from Capitol


1. Maybe there are so many statues that need to be removed that it will provide jobs for a million African Americans(-:

2.  And they can sell them to get money to fund education opportunities for young blacks (-:

3.And maybe this will solve the extremely high violent crime rate, 6 times higher by young black males vs whites of the same age. 

4. Or help the major problem of the absence of black men in American families.

5. Or maybe, it's mostly designed to get votes.

1. Wrong

2. Wrong

3. Wrong

4. Wrong

5. Right!

From the article:

A pair of senior members of the Congressional Black Caucus introduced legislation on Thursday that would remove the remaining Confederate statues from the Capitol following nationwide protests against police brutality and racial profiling.

The bill from Reps. Barbara Lee (D-Calif.) and Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.) came a day after Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) called for removing Confederate statues from the Capitol complex.

There are 11 statues of people who served in the Confederacy, either as officials or soldiers, displayed in the Capitol complex. Some, such as Jefferson Davis, who served as president of the Confederate States, are located just steps from the House chamber.

“Americans in all 50 states and millions of people around the world are marching to protest racism and police violence directed at people of color, and yet across the country, Confederate statues and monuments still pay tribute to white supremacy and slavery in public spaces,” Lee said in a statement. “It is time to tell the truth about what these statues are: hateful symbols that have no place in our society and certainly should not be enshrined in the U.S. Capitol.”

The statues are all part of the National Statuary Hall collection, which are displayed all over the Capitol complex. Each of the 50 states contributes two statues to the collection, which they can replace if their legislatures and governors approve the change.

The legislation from Lee and Thompson would remove all of the Confederate statues in the collection within 120 days. The statues could either be reclaimed by the states or given to the Smithsonian.

Lee previously introduced the bill in 2017 following the violence at a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Va.

But the efforts by Lee and other Congressional Black Caucus members at the time ultimately did not lead to removal of the Capitol's Confederate statues while Republicans still controlled both chambers of Congress.

Thompson also pushed for removing the display of his state's flag, which includes the Confederate battle flag, in the Capitol complex in 2015 after the mass shooting at a black church in Charleston, S.C.

GOP leaders ultimately removed a display of state flags in a tunnel connecting House office buildings to the Capitol and replaced them with commemorative coins.

Pelosi on Wednesday asked Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) and Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.), the chairman and vice chairwoman of the Joint Committee on the Library, which oversees the placement of statues, to remove the statues.

Pelosi similarly called for removing the Confederate statues in 2017. And during her previous stint as Speaker, Pelosi moved a statue of Robert E. Lee, the Confederate army commander, from a prominent place in Statuary Hall, steps from the House chamber, to a floor below in a room known as the Capitol Crypt.

"Monuments to men who advocated cruelty and barbarism to achieve such a plainly racist end are a grotesque affront to these ideals. Their statues pay homage to hate, not heritage. They must be removed," Pelosi wrote Wednesday.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said Thursday that he thinks a decision on Confederate statues in the Capitol should be left up to states



"Every state is allowed two statues, they can trade them out at any time ... a number of states are trading them out now. But I think that's the appropriate way to deal with the statue issue. The states make that decision," McConnell told reporters.

President Trump, meanwhile, has defended allowing Confederate statues and buildings named after Confederate officials to remain in place. Trump said Wednesday he "will not even consider" renaming Army bases that were named for Confederate leaders despite top Pentagon officials expressing openness to the idea.

"These Monumental and very Powerful Bases have become part of a Great American Heritage, and a history of Winning, Victory, and Freedom," Trump tweeted.

By metmike - June 11, 2020, 7:49 p.m.
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I actually don't have a strong opinion on the removal of the Confederate statues.

I have been a strong supporter of civil rights my entire life.

If they are truly offensive for legit reasons to a great number of people, then I understand this. 

However, who will decide exactly what statutes go and for what reasons?

George Washington had hundreds of slaves his entire life.

Thomas Jefferson, something like 600 slaves.

"Thomas Jefferson, the third president of the United States, owned more than 600 African-American slaves throughout his adult life. Jefferson freed two slaves while he lived, and seven more after his death. Jefferson consistently spoke out against the international slave trade, outlawed while he was President, while he advocated gradual emancipation and colonization of domestic slaves.[1][2][3] Common for his times, Jefferson believed blacks were inherently inferior to whites and thought it was best the two races remained segregated."

metmike: The problem is that here in 2020, we are so much more civilized, laws are different, our understanding of the world is much more informed. Slavery was accepted by society back then. 

Up until around 500 years ago, science was teaching that the sun, stars and planets revolved around the earth too. 

Great scientists and brilliant men from the past thought that the sun revolved around the earth. Should we take their names out of books, get rid of their statutes and not learn about their contributions to science and the world as they knew it back then because they would be scoffed at today for their ignorant beliefs then?

It wasn't until around 500 years ago and Copernicus, that humans began to appreciate that the planets, including the earth revolved around the sun, not all of them around the earth.

In astronomy, the geocentric model (also known as geocentrism, often exemplified specifically by the Ptolemaic system) is a superseded description of the Universe with Earth at the center.

Nicolaus Copernicus (/kˈpɜːrnɪkəs, kə-/;[2][3][4] Polish: Mikołaj Kopernik;[b] German: Nikolaus Kopernikus; Niklas Koppernigk; 19 February 1473 – 24 May 1543) was a Renaissance-era mathematician and astronomer, who formulated a model of the universe that placed the Sun rather than Earth at the center of the universe,

metmike: Why is the belief that some humans were inferior to other humans that much different?  They were raised and taught that way.........just like ancient scientists were taught the geocentric model. Blacks appeared to be inferior because they were not given equal  opportunities to be educated and to apply their intelligence, just like the sun appears to revolve around the earth based on its movement across the sky every day.

Am I justifying THEIR belief?

YES! They didn't know any better! They were ignorant because they were taught to be ignorant by everyone around them in society and misled by their observations. 

What about all these people that think and teach that CO2 is pollution and that we are having  a climate crisis? They are wrong but are being taught this. How would they know any better?  In 50 years, when we look back at climate science during the current time frame, humans in 2070 will consider people today as being scientifically ignorant for believing this beneficial gas which is greening up the planet and contributing to the best weather/climate in the last 1,000 years during the the current climate optimum.

So the point is, we can't just go about wiping out selected parts of our history because people back then were not as smart or advanced as we are today. We certainty should judge them, mostly  based on the era that they lived in..........not by today's standards.

Really  smart people 600 years ago, thought and did really dumb things that children today know more about. 

Doctors did blood letting to treat illness. 

However, when it comes to racism, many want to judge people in the today's standards. Racism today is totally unacceptable in every way, shape of form. But please focus the fight on productive measures to obliterate it in people TODAY IN THIS TIME that promote  racist policies or behavior.

Vilifying people from hundreds of years ago who had slaves is non productive and even counter productive and wasting time, money and resources that can be better spent causing actual positive changes in our communities today. 

Go ahead and hate Thomas Jefferson because he had 600 slaves if you want but he's been dead for over 200 years and hate mainly damages the hater. ............altough right now,  "some" of those with the most rage and hatred are trying to do as much damage as possible to the rest of us. 

By GunterK - June 11, 2020, 10:58 p.m.
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since the country is moving forward and removing all things that remind us of the Civil War, such as statues of military leaders of the South.....was'nt the Democratic party of that time the party of slavery?

By WxFollower - June 12, 2020, 12:50 a.m.
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 Indeed you're correct that the Dems then were more in favor of  slavery than the Pubs. However, the Dems back then were actually the con party while the Pubs were the lib party. 

By metmike - June 12, 2020, 12:53 a.m.
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Good point Gunter.

Maybe some people are trying to wipe out history for that reason too. 

I think the main idea is to not have monuments and statues of people that represented racism in their time around today...IF it promotes racism today.

I don't ever recall being taught that Thomas Jefferson had 600 slaves and only until recently, when it became important as a fact to lessen his stature/reputation did I learn this. 

My first thought was......well, most rich people had slaves back then, what did we expect?  It was an accepted part of society,  Just like the earth being flat was accepted by everybody 600 years ago.

There is no question that racists and white supremacists think of confederate generals and even President Jefferson's slave holding differently than the rest of us.

So does that mean this factors into a rational decision of how to treat these historical characters? Why are we letting their view even matter?

It's like...........anything a racist or white supremacist bad and has to go.  We hear this all time as a reason why President Trump has to go. This group supports him so he must be bad.

Who cares what they support. What if they all drank white milk?  Stop giving them any attention and go on with productive actions that actually help blacks to be successful. and get treated fairly/justly.

We can improve and fix the bad things about cops. The means to do that are there and getting implemented. This is how a rational society acts to improve itself.

However, defunding something that provides 99% benefits to society, with 99% good people/non racists, when you can fix the problems is insane and shows that one side is not thinking rationally.  Tearing down all the statutes and renaming the Army bases of people associate with the Civil War is pretty extreme too.

Now, they have taken all the police shows off the air. WTHeck!

Cops had been on for 33 years and was very popular........its gone.

In every scene, of every show during that time,  it showed good cops, acting just like all cops should act. 

The only thing that makes sense is that they don't want cops portrayed as the good guys anymore. The TV show, Cops is evidence to KEEP fully funding the police.. It makes cops look good............can't have that, because the narrative is that we have a major, impossible to fix/solve problem with systemic racism involving police. 

The Protests Come for ‘Paw Patrol’

A backlash is mounting against depictions of “good cops,” on television and in the street.

Chase is on the case in “Paw Patrol,” but as protests against racist police violence reach their third week, criticism of fictional cops is growing, too.Credit...Elevation Pictures

It was only a matter of time before the protests came for “Paw Patrol.”

“Paw Patrol” is a children’s cartoon about a squad of canine helpers. It is basically a pretense for placing household pets in a variety of cool trucks. The team includes Marshall, a firefighting Dalmatian; Rubble, a bulldog construction worker; and Chase, a German shepherd who is also a cop. In the world of “Paw Patrol,” Chase is drawn to be a very good boy who barks stuff like “Chase is on the case!” and “All in a police pup’s day!” as he rescues kittens in his tricked-out S.U.V.

But last week, when the show’s official Twitter account put out a bland call for “Black voices to be heard,” commenters came after Chase. “Euthanize the police dog,” they said. “Defund the paw patrol.” “All dogs go to heaven, except the class traitors in the Paw Patrol.”

It’s a joke, but it’s also not. As the protests against racist police violence enter their third week, the charges are mounting against fictional cops, too. Even big-hearted cartoon police dogs — or maybe especially big-hearted cartoon police dogs — are on notice. The effort to publicize police brutality also means banishing the good-cop archetype, which reigns on both television and in viral videos of the protests themselves. “Paw Patrol” seems harmless enough, and that’s the point: The movement rests on understanding that cops do plenty of harm.

The protests arrived in the midst of a pandemic that has alienated Americans from their social ties, family lives and workplaces. New and intense relationships with content have filled the gap, and now our quarantine consumptions are being reviewed with an urgently political eye. The reckoning has come for newspapers, food magazines, Bravo reality shows and police procedurals.

Last week, Tom Scharpling, an executive producer of “Monk,” criticized his own show on Twitter: “If you — as I have — worked on a TV show or movie in which police are portrayed as lovable goofballs, you have contributed to the larger acceptance that cops are implicitly the good guys.” Griffin Newman, an actor who appeared in two episodes of “Blue Bloods” as a detective, donated his $11,000 in earnings to a bail fund, inspiring other actorswho have played copsto do the same. LEGO has halted marketing on its “LEGO City Police Station” and “Police Highway Arrest” sets. A&E has pulled its reality show “Live PD” from the schedule. On Tuesday night, “Cops,” the show that branded suspects as “bad boys” and spawned the whole genre of crime reality television, was canceled after 32 seasons.

Cops are not just television stars; they are television’s biggest stars. Crime shows are TV’s most popular genre, now making up more than 60 percent of prime-time drama programming on the big four broadcast networks. The tropes of the genre are so predictable that a whole workplace sitcom, “Brooklyn Nine-Nine,” is layered atop them. “A police station was a shortcut,” Dan Goor, the show’s co-creator, has said, “because people are very aware of how police television works. You know instantly who the good guys are and who the bad guys are.”

metmike: This is an outrage. Taking all the police shows depicting cops as good guys off the air, so we don't see them that way.

They are intentionally smearing an entire profession of tens of thousands, almost all good and almost always doing things that benefit society.......for a political agenda.

By WxFollower - June 12, 2020, 1:31 a.m.
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 I agree 100% about the outrage. Live PD, one of my favorites for the last 4 years, has been canceled by A&E. However, this may be out of their hands as the production company said they wouldn't produce any more shows. Hopefully, they can find another production company.

 This is all getting way out of hand, folks. it is now not PC to like any cops, including animated canine cops!

By TimNew - June 12, 2020, 3:37 a.m.
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I've heard this argument many times.  "Back then,  the dems were pubs and the pubs were dems.  They've all switched since then"..   When did this transformation occur?  It hadn't happened by the 60's when all the most famous, virtually all the opposition to the civil rights movement was from the party with the "D" suffix.   The first pub president ever carried by Ga was Reagan.   And today,  you don't see more racism from anyone than what you'll see from the left when a minority comes out as conservative. Condoleezza Rice was depicted as a "House N$##$R" and thats just one of many examples.    So,  when did this transition take place?

Anyway, on removing statues..  It's political pandering at it's most base level that accomplishes nothing, or more likely, less than nothing. Does anyone want to argue that with all the sh#t going on right now, removing a few statues will fix anything?  But the real problem with revision and censorship, two words with essentially the same meaning,  once you start, where do you stop?   Everyone is offended by something.  Hey,   I know,  let's ban "Gone with the Wind".  Totally racist movie!!. Ohhh, and "To kill a Mocking Bird" .  Worse than any statue ever!!

Two points I want to make.  1st, you have no inalienable right to not be offended. Everyone is offended by something. Do we start pandering to the most vocal of these going forward?  2nd,  when you start down the road to revision and censorship,  it doesn't end well.  You just get more and more of it until there is no freedom of ideas. 

By wglassfo - June 12, 2020, 12:47 p.m.
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Taken to the logical conclusion, people will band together with common views. It has already happened and nobody is doig anything to stop the community from banding together, given they have a common view of what they think is right for their community

Who says a community, such as we already have, will respect a transfer of power if something about the winner of an election is offensive. Communities that band together will say they do not respect the voting system or some other reason to not respect the transfer of power

That is when you have to either resort to force to get obedience or just ignore those who don't respect a vote and change in power

Once you ignore a community that bands together, then it is just a mater of time before you have more communities with a common belief, banding together for protection of property rights etc.

We have already seen more than one communities banding together, patrolling the streets with armed guards

This will only continue until you have martial law as the public wants law and order

Will transfer of power continue. I think so at the present, but some day soon a person such as Cumo could rally enough support to call out the natn'l guard , if elected and then what is to stop such a strong man from declaring no more elections

If you have the force to back you up a strong man will rule the country

You may think this is tin foil hat, but I ask you

Who would have thought we would accept being locked down for 3 months, seen communities band together for protection or a common belief and more

To say something like I just posted is living in a world of blissful ignorance, given what has happening through out the country

I am not saying I posted everything exactly as it may well happen, but you can be sure that changes will happen that you may not like

Change has already happened and change will continue at a very rapid pace

The coming election will decide a lot about the country and what the people will accept or want

Mostly I think people want law and order. The question is what will the people sacrifice

There is  saying that warriors will fight so the meek can sleep safely in their beds at night

Most warriors have a strong man for a leader

You may not like what happens in the future

By metmike - June 22, 2020, 3:29 p.m.
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Theodore Roosevelt statue will be removed from the front steps of the Museum of Natural History

 (CNN)A statue of President Theodore Roosevelt in front of the American Museum of Natural History in New York City will be removed, a statement from New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio's office said Sunday.

Following the museum's request to remove the statue, which features the nation's 26th President on a horse with a Native American man standing on one side and an African man standing on the other, the mayor's office announced the approval.

The announcement comes as several state's grapple with how to handle removals of confederate monuments and other controversial statues.

"The American Museum of Natural History has asked to remove the Theodore Roosevelt statue because it explicitly depicts Black and Indigenous people as subjugated and racially inferior," de Blasio's office said in a statement to CNN. "The city supports the museum's request. It is the right decision and the right time to remove this problematic statue." 

While it was meant to celebrate Roosevelt as a "devoted naturalist and author of works on natural history," the statue also "communicates a racial hierarchy that the museum and members of the public have long found disturbing," 

By metmike - June 22, 2020, 3:33 p.m.
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Monmouth University renaming Woodrow Wilson Hall


                  Monmouth University renaming Woodrow Wilson Hall    

Monmouth University will remove Woodrow Wilson’s names from the university’s marquee building, citing the 28th president’s racist policies, at a time when numerous monuments and honors given to figures associated with segregation or racism are being reassessed.

The decision comes four years after the New Jersey university’s trustees voted to keep Wilson’s name on the building amid student calls to rename it. President Patrick F. Leahy said “the context has changed” since then.

“Wilson was a controversial politician, and I think it has heightened awareness in 2020 about some of his racist policies,” Leahy told the New York Times.

Trustees on Thursday voted to rename Woodrow Wilson Hall the Great Hall at Shadow Lawn, the Times reported. The hall was not built until 1929, five years after the former president’s death, and was only named after him in 1966.

During his presidency, Wilson oversaw the re-segregation of the federal workforce and notoriously hosted a White House screening of D.W. Griffith’s pro-Ku Klux Klan film “The Birth of a Nation,” credited for inspiring the white supremacist group’s resurgence in the 1920s. Wilson reportedly praised the film as “like writing history with lightning.”

The decision stands in contrast to that of then-president Paul R. Brown in 2016, who said that while “Wilson’s racist views are abhorrent, he was a product of his time, and that judging the values of a previous era by our own standards could lead toward the path of erasing unpleasant facts of history, which is never an appropriate action for any academic institution.”

Wilson served as president of Princeton University and governor of New Jersey before becoming president, and numerous places and institutions in the Garden State bear his name, including Camden’s Woodrow Wilson High School, which recently announced it will also change its name. “Our students will walk into a new building not tied to a building with a racist legacy,” Camden’s superintendent, Katrina McCombs, said, according to the Philadelphia Inquirer.

By metmike - June 22, 2020, 4:02 p.m.
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With regards to those misguided people removing Americans honored for legit achievements but who were not always for racial justice and even owned slaves(when owning slaves was legal).

You are see yourselves as historical authorities being applied selectively to single out those that disagree with your belief system today and judged by your more advanced belief system today.......even though some lived hundreds of years ago.

The man who discovered that the earth revolved around the sun, died just 477 years ago. Before him, all scientists must have been idiots because they all believed that the sun, stars and planets revolved around the earth. 

Any legit scientific contributions, tributes or statues of those scientifically backward men, as defined by our knowledge of science today........should be removed!

                            Copernicus: the man who discovered earth moves around the sun                                                                           

                                Science | History

By metmike - June 22, 2020, 4:09 p.m.
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They are clearly looking at history and selectively deciding who to discredit and who to give honor too.............based on their opinions about slavery or civil rights during their time, using a grading/evaluation system from today's world.

Why don't we go back a couple of thousand years and look at the big picture. Slavery was accepted in almost every country almost that entire time. 

Here is a list of hundreds of famous slaves................including a pope that was likely a freed slave.

List of slaves

Slavery is a social-economic system under which persons are enslaved: deprived of personal freedom and forced to perform labor or services without compensation. These people are referred to as slaves.

The following is a list of historical people who were enslaved at some point during their lives, in alphabetical order by first name. Several names have been added under the letter representing the person's last name.

By metmike - June 22, 2020, 4:30 p.m.
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Slavery is an abhorrent condition. 

Racism should be crushed in every form today. However, removing statutes of people honored for accomplishing things independent of whatever racial views they might have had(that were shared by much of society) is counterproductive.

It's also confusing in a way. History is history. 

For instance, scientists in the past that made great discoveries should not have those honors taken away because they were taught that the sun revolves around the earth. 

Is race different though?

No it isn't, except that it constantly gets used politically. 

Ignorance is ignorance. This is not criminal activity, breaking laws during the times that they lived............which would be a valid reason to discredit them. This was them being taught racism from a young age. By their parents and surrounded by it in society which accepted it. They really thought that black people were inferior and slavery, in the old days was ok. 

 Blacks were not afforded educations or opportunities to apply themselves..........and APPEARED to be inferior.....just like the sun, crossing the sky, APPEARED to be revolving around the earth and tricked the most brilliant minds for thousands of years to think that the sun revolved around the earth.

Ignorance about science. Ignorance about human rights.

Both based on living in ages of human history that did not afford them the understandings they we have today........ thanks to generations of learning and progress that got us to this advanced point. 

And most of it was taught to us.

Which one of us figured out on their own that the earth revolves around the sun? Schooling, videos, pictures, books and so on educated us. Young children know more about this realm than some of the smartest people who lived 500 years ago. We continue to make new scientific discoveries but this one was probably the biggest.

Science has a huge advantage. You can PROVE things. It took awhile for humans to embrace that new idea but it went much quicker than the world embracing equal rights to all men and women. 

In human rights the progress has taken well over a couple of centuries/been much slower and much harder to advance as knowledge to wipe out the ignorance.

Like Copernicus, less than 500 years ago(when there initially was a complete rejection of his theory by institutions like the Catholic Church) people taught the exact opposite their entire lives, were not inclined to embrace ideas behind civil rights. 

Keep in mind that women only got the right to vote in this country 100 years ago folks! What's next, taking down statutes of  men  that were not for womens right to vote?

The ignorance about the rights of all humans, regardless of race, gender, sexual preference or anything else was astoundingly primitive up until recent times.

None of these statutues were bothering or offending anyone for decades and they were absolutely not considered examples to follow because of their views about blacks at the time............ until people decided they should be offensive. 

This is completely counterproductive.

I get the idea of some people trying to eradicate as many things as possible from the past that THEY think were connected enough to slavery or racism that THEY have decided are offensive to THEM in a new world defined by THEIR new standards but this is counterproductive to progress.

Progress was getting past this decades ago and moving FORward with new laws and changes in society that protect equal rights for everybody. This is going BACKwards  into the past to try to rewrite history and take honors bestowed for  accomplishments of these people away because YOU didn't like their position on race.

It provides zero jobs, zero education, keeps zero blacks out of prison and strenthens zero black families. It provides for a "feel good" stunt that makes those advocating it look good, while in reality, wasting time and resources that could be focusing in on the authentic problems.

By metmike - June 22, 2020, 7:55 p.m.
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Noose Left In Black NASCAR Driver Bubba Wallace's Garage Stall At Racetrack

"In a statement, Wallace said, "Today's despicable act of racism and hatred leaves me incredibly saddened and serves as a painful reminder of how much further we have to go as a society and how persistent we must be in the fight against racism."


NASCAR condemned the act:


"We are angry and outraged, and cannot state strongly enough how seriously we take this heinous act. We have launched an immediate investigation, and will do everything we can to identify the person(s) responsible and eliminate them from the sport. As we have stated unequivocally, there is no place for racism in NASCAR, and this act only strengthens our resolve to make the sport open and welcoming to all."

I also strongly condemn this racist act that demonstrates this idiots hatred for this black person because of his position that caused NASCAR to ban confederate flags. 

But seriously, this 1 person and one act, leaving a rope to represent lynching by black people in the south decades ago represents society today? 

If it really did, then how does this story about the rope, where nobody got hurt except emotions,  justify a top story for almost every news organization in the country today and this didn't:

104 shot, 14 fatally, over Father’s Day weekend in Chicago


Five children were among the 14 people killed, including a 3-year-old boy and 13-year-old girl killed in separate shootings in Austin on Saturday.

The Moms of those 5 innocent children killed(and hundreds like them in this country for the same reason) would love to have a dozen hang mans nooses in their garage from some dumb arse racist if it would bring their child back!!!!

Why are we giving these isolated incidents and idiots so much attention and power? The person that did this is loving it. All he had to do was put a rope in a black guys stall and for a couple of days, his message of hate would be shouted across the country on all the news outlets and organizations that comment on it. 

Free publicity that he couldn't get any other way. That racist nitwit, actually outsmarted everybody. They reacted and did exactly what he wanted them to do. 

All the while, nobody is speaking out about the innocent black childrens lives being lost. 

By metmike - June 22, 2020, 8:10 p.m.
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Just the background of what led to this.

Probably somebody that loves the Confederate flag that was ticked off at Bubba for single handedly getting it banned from their favorite sport(maybe not much more to it than that).

NASCAR's Bubba Wallace to Race in ‘Black Lives Matter’ Car After Asking for Confederate Flag Ban

By metmike - June 22, 2020, 9:33 p.m.
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Widespread outrage over a noose left because a racist expressing despicable hate was ticked off at a black man for causing them to not be able to bring their Confederate flag to NASCAR events.....generating even more support for BLM that he belongs to with cries continuing for defunding the police.

But the MSM ignores all the numerous black DEATHS at the hands of black criminals, including black children who will never even get the chance to drive a car, let alone drive one on the NASCAR circuit!!!

Defunding the police will make crime much worse and kill more of these innocent blacks.

By TimNew - June 23, 2020, 4:39 a.m.
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Something seems a little off on this Nascar/Noose story.  DO you know how many security cams they have around there,  not to mention security,

By metmike - June 23, 2020, 7:13 a.m.
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I’ve never followed nascar Tim but you do raise an interesting point to consider.especially since the outrage and reaction is like 100 times greater than that expressed for the deaths of innocent children being killed and is trying to make us think this is Mississippi in the 1950s where that symbol meant a black man life was on the line.

In 2020 what does that mean?

It means, the reaction to it is  a powerful display of how we are not a racist society anymore and the complete opposite of the 1950s in the south.

It means millions of people get behind the black man and give him their moral support...........millions against the act of a racist person leaving a hateful message.

It means justification for nascar to ban confederate flags.

I can see how powerful of a message this act/incident  has turned into...100% the opposite of what a racist would have wanted.

So we know the racist was really really dumb to begin with but was he so dumb as to not realize his actions would not have the opposite affect?

Or are we dumb enough to think that somebody else is dumb enough to think this act was going to help their racist cause/view.

We should wait to see what the investigation shows.

Racists ARE pretty dumb and hate is blind but we have seen the extremes that  people go to with political stunts to manipulate others.

By metmike - June 23, 2020, 1:20 p.m.
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                          Bubba Wallace   Speaks to FBI in Noose Probe    Offended' By Hoax Theories          



Bubba Wallace confirms he has already been interviewed by the FBI as part of its investigation into the noose incident ... and he's blasting people who think it was all a hoax.


The NASCAR driver appeared on "The View" on Tuesday -- one day after an inspiring performance at Talladega -- and was asked how he felt about theories the noose was "staged" by NASCAR to garner more support for the Confederate flag ban.


"People are entitled to their own opinions to make them feel good and help them sleep at night."


Bubba says law enforcement is all over the case -- "I can now say I've talked to the FBI ... never though that would happen!"


As we previously reported, Al Sharpton is concerned investigators are dragging their feet ... and he's demanding answers ASAP.


As for the emotional displays of solidarity at Talladega on Monday -- when all of the competing drivers rallied behind Bubba's car -- Wallace says he was truly moved by the support.


"Every time I watch that video I get emotional and get chills," Wallace said.


"It offends me that people would go to those measures but again, I'm not shocked," Wallace said.

By pj - June 23, 2020, 2:24 p.m.
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Tim: "Hey,   I know,  let's ban "Gone with the Wind".  Totally racist movie!!"

They beat you to it.

By metmike - June 23, 2020, 5:02 p.m.
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This blatant racist and uninformed (about the solar system and belief in Greek Gods) philosopher has got to go, along with all  of his statues. 

Aristotle’s Defense of Slavery


"Aristotle (384-322 BC) is one of the greatest philosophers, and his moral and political philosophy remains especially influential. But he also believed that, for some people, being enslaved was just and even beneficial for them.

How could Aristotle defend a despicable, abhorrent practice like slavery? How could someone with such philosophical insight get one of the most basic moral issues completely wrong?

Aristotle’s defense of slavery illustrates how even the most brilliant people can fail to critically examine their own beliefs and society’s customs."

By metmike - June 23, 2020, 5:17 p.m.
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The great mathematician(and first to explain gravity) Isaac Newton?

Sorry folks, he's got to go too )-:

Sir Isaac Newton

Newton was a shareholder in the notorious South Sea Company that traded in enslaved Africans among other commodities.

By metmike - June 23, 2020, 5:20 p.m.
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In fact, we should look at the dozens of scientists that benefited from and used the slave trade to advance science:

Historians expose early scientists’ debt to the slave trade

By metmike - June 23, 2020, 5:57 p.m.
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Society decides who they want to honor with statutes or other physical structures but society can change and we are in the early stages of a cultural revolution.

Those in the current older generation and our ancestors never considered a persons position on race when we constructed statue's or monuments for them.  Until recent years, I never knew that Thomas Jefferson had 600 slaves or at least never thought about it. If I did, it would have been "dugh, people back then thought that was ok(it was legal) and rich people had lots of what?"

However, we are in the early stages of a cultural revolution and part of this is that the progressives leading the way in society want to replace as much as possible, things that remind us of the old culture. 

When the Western world and US completely embrace socialism(global and in our country) they will want to discard as many things related to capitalism, especially early on. If your society/culture has morphed into something it thinks is much better, it makes no sense to have physical structures or monuments honoring what it thinks was a crap system that discriminated against poor people by  the rich people. 

I'm telling you that this IS coming. 

20 years ago, could you have imagined taking down all these statutes.......banning the flag at NASCAR, defunding the police and so on. As I have been insisting since it happened, The Paris Climate Accord has nothing to do with climate.. It's a committment by every country to participate in an agreement that balances the world's wealth and resources going from the developed to underdeveloped countries, while obliterating fossil fuels(not because of climate change-the climate crisis is fake) but because they are the life blood for every roaring, natural resource over consuming countries economy. Under the leadership of the United Nations, all rich countries must cut back to achieve "Sustainable development" which mean LESS of many things for us rich countries. Personally, that part won't bother me because I consume less of everything than anybody I know(I'm an environmentalist) but the hijacking of climate science(my profession) to perpetrate fraud and dumb down peoples understanding of weather/cliimate/science to trick them into doing something they wouldn't what bothers me.

The progressives running the new socialist/Marxist society will have their own ideas on what statutes they want around.

Sweden: Calls to replace King Charles XII with statue of Greta Thunberg

 - pics/2020/06/56532_001_t.jpg

By metmike - June 23, 2020, 6:07 p.m.
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Noose found in Bubba Wallace’s stall a big misunderstanding: FBI

By Mark Fischer


June 23, 2020 | 5:44pm|

"A noose found in the garage stall assigned to NASCAR driver Bubba Wallace Sunday at the Talladega Superspeedway had actually been there since October 2019, meaning the circuit’s only full-time black driver was not the victim of a hate crime, the FBI concluded Tuesday.

“Although the noose is now known to have been in garage number 4 in 2019, nobody could have known Mr. Wallace would be assigned to garage number 4 last week,” the FBI said in a statement.

The FBI said it would not be pursuing federal charges.

Many had thought the noose represented a hate crime against the 26-year-old Wallace, who two weeks ago led the charge for NASCAR to ban Confederate flags at all events and on its properties.

The race at Talladega Superspeedway was postponed Sunday, and dozens of drivers pushed Wallace’s car to the front of the field before the race took place Monday in an act of solidarity.

”I’m proud to stand where I’m at. … This sport is changing,” Wallace said afterward. “The deal that happened [Saturday] I wanted to show whoever it was, you are not going to take away my smile.”

metmike: Now that we have evidence from the investigation showing this was NOT a hate crime and this had ZERO to do with this guy being black. We can say that, yesterday was not just a 100 times too great of an over reaction to what we thought was a REAL racist/hate crime but now, even that understated this bullsheet, which is rapidly defining our world today.

I am interested in what others think about this.

The very saddest thing of all about this is that anybody with a racist bone in their body just found a reason to dislike Bubba Wallace. 

I have never followed NASCAR and don't know one person in it but he seems like a nice guy, so we should give him the benefit of the doubt but this really sounds very fishy as Tim stated.

NASCAR was taking some major heat for banning confederate flags and maybe some fans were not thrilled with him driving a black lives matters car and being for defunding the police at the same time and feeling he is the reason they can't bring their favorite flags with them anymore.

So having this incident, caused everybody to rally around him(not just fellow drivers but they got the whole dang country on board with this being a top news story because an evil racist-that represents reprehensible society had just attacked him with a threat that blacks consider life threatening).

But now it falls makes EVERYBODY that made it 100 times too important look bad, especially Bubba but also NASCAR.

So my question would be. Why didn't they first investigate this before going to the press with the story?  In retrospect, since this rope had been there for 8 months in that stall, there HAD TO BE people that knew it was there.

It seems obvious that they wanted the impact described above from the MSM for political which case, there were people that knew it was a hoax.

What this does, like the Jesse S case is cause people to be more suspicious when a legit hate crime similar to this happens.

The white supremacists in this country are laughing their arses off right now.

By metmike - June 23, 2020, 9:14 p.m.
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FBI determines no federal crime was committed against Bubba Wallace while investigating noose in his garage


The noose was actually a pull rope set up by a team that used the garage in 2019

Following an investigation into the noose that was found in the garage of Bubba Wallace, a Black NASCAR driver, the FBI has determined that no federal crime was committed. Their reasoning is that the noose in question has been in the garage since Oct. 14, 2019, and that nobody outside of NASCAR officials could have known Wallace would have been assigned that garage until a few days before Sunday's race at Talladega, which was ultimately rained out and ran on Monday.

NASCAR's statement about the incident adds a lot more color, noting that the noose was actually a garage door pull rope that was fashioned in a loop. The decision to tie the rope that way during a race at the track last year ultimately resulted in a rather misfortunate understanding, per the statement.

This information about the noose being around since 2019 was also discovered in NASCAR's independent investigation. Wood Brothers Racing, the team that had Wallace's garage during the Talladega race in Oct. 2019, released a statement of their own about the incident. Apparently an employee had remembered seeing the garage rope tied in that way and quickly alerted NASCAR about what the team refers to as "coincidence of our stall from 2019."

"We are thankful that there was no one involved in perpetrating hate during this weekend's race. Just like the rest of the NASCAR garage, we were shocked and appalled to learn of the existence of the rope fashioned like a noose. One of our employees alerted us yesterday morning that, without knowing the details of the incident, he recalled seeing a tied handle in the garage pull-down rope from last fall. We immediately alerted NASCAR and have assisted the investigation in every way possible."

metmike: According to that statement above, NASCAR was alerted immediately yesterday morning that this was actually a garage door pull rope. Why in the world would they not tell us that then and continue to treat it as a racist act for an entire day AFTER they knew it wasn't. Why did they not tell Bubba Wallace then, who 24 hours after they knew this was not a noose, was on The View today, talking about getting the person who did it. I found out from that interview that Wallace never even saw it. So for sure he had ZERO to do with this. It was NASCAR(or somebody associated with them) that came up with this and told Bubba that they found the noose in his garage from a racist. 

They just screwed him over!

Maybe the next extreme reaction will be to make it a crime if you have a rope that is looped at the end so it looks like a noose. 

By metmike - June 23, 2020, 9:30 p.m.
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This person busts the contention of it being a noose from a racist conclusively with this video/pictures. He posted this BEFORE the FBI told us what happened this afternoon.

After seeing the video/image of the so called noose, that was obviously hanging there for awhile, either it was a hoax or NASCAR is has some incompetent people with agendas. 

NASCAR didn't even apologize for their mistake?

That makes me inclined to think that it was intentional.

                     TheLastRefuge                    @TheLastRefuge2                           

3) This is definitive proof.  The Bubba Watson "rope noose" was a total hoax.  

Could have been an accidental misinterpretation by a member of the team; but given the circumstances highly unlikely.  ATTN: @NASCAR please see above.







By metmike - June 23, 2020, 9:42 p.m.
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Hate crime hoaxes, like Jussie Smollett's alleged attack, are more common than you think

In writing a book about hate crime hoaxes, I found more than 400. Such frauds damage good race relations.

The hate attack on Empire star Jussie Smollett is now alleged to be a hoax. That shouldn’t surprise anyone.

"That this case turned out to be a hoax shouldn't come as too big of a shock. A great many hate crime stories turn out to be hoaxes. Simply looking at what happened to the most widely reported hate crime stories over the past 4-5 years illustrates this: not only the Smollett case but also the Yasmin Seweid, Air Force Academy, Eastern Michigan, Wisconsin-Parkside, Kean College, Covington Catholic, and “Hopewell Baptist burning” racial scandals all turned out to be fakes. And, these cases are not isolated outliers.

Doing research for a book, Hate Crime Hoax, I was able to easily put together a data set of 409 confirmed hate hoaxes. An overlapping but substantially different list of 348 hoaxes exists at, and researcher Laird Wilcox put together another list of at least 300 in his still-contemporary book Crying Wolf.

Inter-racial crime is quite rare; 84% of white murder victims and 93% of Black murder victims are killed by criminals of their own race, and the person most likely to kill you is your ex-wife or husband. When violent inter-racial crimes do occur, whites are at least as likely to be the targets as are minorities. Simply put, Klansmen armed with nooses are not lurking on Chicago street corners.

In this context, what hate hoaxers actually do is worsen generally good race relations, and distract attention from real problems."

By metmike - June 24, 2020, 5:19 p.m.
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NASCAR owes everybody an apology, especially Bubba.

We can't know for sure about what was really going on but it sure looks like, if it was a hoax, that he got hoaxed this was not another Jesse S. 

Maybe it was not a hoax and just a bunch of dumb people who jumped to a conclusion without checking obvious facts they had in front of them who decided to make it a top story to protect their agenda and image. That's my guess. 

Instead, they greatly tarnished their image and can't even apologize for THEIR huge mistake and the hurt they caused. On Monday, they were shouting from the rooftops with their anti racist words and how they would hold this person accountable because NASCAR is anti racist.

OK, we got that message loud and clear want us to know that you are anti racist but , your actions and words since then, indicate that you are also anti respectful of race relations(which this damaged because you screamed "racist wolf" when there was nothing there-that hurts legit cases in the future), you are anti common sense and anti humility. 

Worst of all,  Bubba is taking a strong position on something he feels sincerely about and you just obliterated his credibility for some people who don't realize he was not even involved(other than being told  that he was the target of the racist by you, NASCAR!

Bubba Wallace opens up after 24 hours ‘just short of pure hell’

By metmike - June 24, 2020, 5:48 p.m.
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Former NASCAR driver's son apologizes for cheering noose in Bubba Wallace's garage

metmike: So here's the thing about the affect of this incident. You have some life long NASCAR people that are totally outraged at Bubba because they love the sport exactly the way its always been and don't want any changes to it. I never followed it, so am not an expert but thats crystal clear. Maybe some of them are racists? I don't know but probably most of them are not and might even hate Bubba, not for being black but because he disrupted THEIR sport for HIS cause.

They are thinking, "How dare he show up and have the audacity to singlehandedly use his race(black) to get our Confederate flag banned and use our sport for his cause"

So I get why they might think that way, even though I disagree with them blaming Bubba, who is just being authentic to himself/cause and if they are mad about it, should blame NASCAR, not Bubba. 

With this being the case, the absolute worst thing that could have happened to Bubba.............was what just happened.

People that were mad at him and blamed him for changes see this cry of "racist wolf" "racist wolf"  "racist wolf" as the quintessential example of how the racist bs is wrecking their sport.

And their belief would be justified in the reality of the world where "racist wolf" "racist wolf" is heard constantly for so many dumb things, that for people who know that racists aren't lurking around every corner with a noose, it makes real racist incidents/reports harder to believe.

By metmike - June 24, 2020, 10:45 p.m.
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Race charlaton AL Sharpton does what he does best.......inject the most racially inflammatory personal interpretation as he possibly can to get attention as he refuses to accept any explanations that don't include racism.  

Al Sharpton Calls for Further Investigation into NASCAR ‘Noose’ Incident: ‘I Do Not Think We Have Seen Closure’

"Reverend Al Sharpton on Wednesday called for further investigation into the “noose” found in African American NASCAR driver Bubba Wallace’s garage despite the FBI’s determination that the object was not put there to target him and had been present since 2019.

The FBI said on Tuesday, “The noose found in garage number 4 [at Talladega Superspeedway] was in that garage as early as October 2019…nobody could have known Mr. Wallace would be assigned to garage number 4 last week.”

“It was a noose, so the question is even if they did not know that Bubba Wallace was going to use that stall, why was a noose in the stall?” Sharpton said on MSNBC Wednesday morning. “I do not think we’ve seen closure in this particular inquiry.”

Wallace was informed about the purported “noose” from NASCAR, which had received a report from a member of his pit crew.

“The photo evidence I’ve seen and have in my possession [shows] it was a garage pull that was a noose,” Wallace told NBC on Wednesday. “It was definitely in the shape of a noose. It wasn’t a functioning noose.”

Sharpton commented, “Clearly, from what we just saw from Bubba Wallace, it does not seem he, who is the victim and possible target in this matter seems to be satisfied with this.”

By GunterK - June 24, 2020, 11:32 p.m.
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"..Hate crime hoaxes, like Jussie Smollett's alleged attack, are more common than you think..."

I remeber a few years ago, they found some ugly racial graffiti painted on a black church. The culprit turned out to be a member of that church

And just a few days ago....

Black man admitted  having planted racial graffiti on campus buildings.


Bubba Williams sure got a lot of publicity. His market value (for commercials, etc) probably went way up.

By metmike - June 25, 2020, 11:52 a.m.
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Hilarious joke about the water cooler. Good one!

In today's world, no doubt alot of people will get upset that a person could actually make a joke that involved race.........please keep it up there because the best jokes, often are based on realities.

This is one of the big reasons for the problem.

One side wants us to think that there is a racist lurking around every corner(and in the White House), that racism is systemic in society and white cops have a deep seated desire to kill young black men(though ALL legit studies show this is not true-they commit 6 times more violent crime which multiplies the encounters) and the republican policies are racist.

We aren't perfect but this is bull. Race relations are great in reality(despite us being taught they are not), almost all cops are good cops and almost none of them are racist. President Trump is NOT a racist. That one is made up and partly based on white nationalists all supporting him and his nationalistic(MAGA) agenda. 

A huge reason that they convince people that there is a racial crisis happening in this because they know society finds racism so repugnant and wants it stamped out..........that people in society will do whatever we need to do to get rid of it.  

They present themselves as the party(organization) that fights racism and the other side as racists. This makes the choice for who to support crystal clear. Of course we would want to  support the anti racist entities and shun  the  racists entities.

Then, they present stunts and marketing scheme's to provide the illusion that they are doing things and showing THEY are the anti racist party (wearing African garb, tearing down statues, defunding racist cops). While actually being much more responsible for the actual REAL problems that blacks face.........lack of education, jobs and higher crime rates. 

This is no theory, its what they are doing, just like with the fake climate crisis scare came from the same play book.

Scare the crap out of people about a non existent apocolypse and present yourself as the party/entity that has all the magical solutions. Just support them and do what they say and they will fix it for us...........despite the reality of this being a great climate optimum on this greening planet based on every field of science and not despite of but BECAUSE of the increase in the entirely beneficial gas, CO2. 

That sounds odd because you've been effectively brainwashed by the gatekeepers to think otherwise. Effective critical and logical thinking in most people is becoming a thing of the past as we become totally dependent on the MSM, social media and politicians to tell us what we need to know. Strange how there are 2 sides that claim to be almost 100% right on everything and most people line up with just one side, get all their information from just one side and it turns into a cult mentality. You will believe everything that your side tells you, no matter how ludicrous and nothing the other side says no matter how obvious/true it is.