Mike for the record I have never once agreed with the argument that we are having a climate crisis. Go back and take a look at my comments.
I do not think we are having a climate emergency or climate crisis. I've never said it . The Earth is clearly warming and whether or not it's anthropologically driven or a natural variability or some cycle it's going to present some problems for us over the next 20 or 30 years.
A couple of things. First
I agree with your assessment that there are numerous examples of climate scientists and climate advocates who are not really scientists pushing a particular perspective which turns out to be not accurate.
My point I'm trying to make is that simply because some scientists and sign spokesman whether it's Hansen or whether it's Al Gore over hype and predict things which turn out to be wrong ....it doesn't mean that all of climate science is crap. I think far too many people especially conservatives do this because they don't understand how science works
Science is supposed to get things wrong. That's how we learn. You know that and I know that and maybe a few others here might But to many people the fact that science gets things wrong is very disconcerting because some people are used to having things that they strongly believe in that never change
I find this attitude to be particularly true with conservatives and religious conservatives at that. Their values that they hold dear never change no matter what happens. This is in essence the conflict between religion and science which has been going on for 600 years or more.
This Is one of the reasons why people think meteorologist get 50% of the forecast wrong all the time . If the Forecast 4 days from now is hot dry and then it changes 2 days later so it's wet and cool... Well that's weather. But for a lot of people that seems like uncertainty which From their point of view undercuts science.
I know you think I'm being argumentative. I am not. I'm simply trying to stake out a position here where almost everybody else in this group and form dramatically opposes and react stridently there anything I post which is not hard line conservative. I mean seriously Mike sometimes it's 20 to 1 against me here
Take for example the thread about Joe Biden and is economic plan. They are a least 3 or 4 different commentators in that thread who are deeply hostile to my comments there . of course I give it back as much as I take it but when all the fire is directed at me a can be a little aggravating.
I am an out of the Box thinker. I mean really out of the Box. I generally a Dislike conventional wisdom although I recognize that conventional wisdom is sometimes correct.
For example IMO I think any discussion about economic growth is pointless in this particular situation because of the outbreak of the virus returning across the country. That's not it endorsement of Joe Biden policy. It is pretty clear that in my view this president simply has no clue about how to handle or deal with or slow down the virus. Clearly you and I guess most other members here don't agree with that assessment. But whether or not the virus is trump's fault or the 2nd surge that we're having his trump's fault .... the point remains valid-----Any economic discussion about growth is not valid and has no merit and till we can contain the virus and get things back to normal.
Apparently nobody else understands that
I will work harder in order to keep my language toned down. But It would be helpful if you remember that class 4 or 5 or 6 to 1 against me in a single thread it could make things a little hostile and confrontational.
The fact that my insightc is different from yours or other people's does not mean that I am mentally ill unstable or delusional. The fact of my opinion does not agree with the consensus also does not mean my opinion or argument or premise is without merit.
DT said: “My point I'm trying to make is that simply because some scientists and sign spokesman whether it's Hansen or whether it's Al Gore over hype and predict things which turn out to be wrong ....it doesn't mean that all of climate science is crap. I think far too many people especially conservatives do this because they don't understand how science works”
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DT,
I wholeheartedly agree. This sounds more like the old middle of the road DT. There needs to be more middle of the road compromising in this country. So many issues are treated as too black and white. The best solutions for the country are usually the various shades of gray and that includes GW/climate change. One thing I’m concerned about is the rising sea level.
Dave,
Wonderful post.
You will find that when you make posts like that, I will always be on your side................not because you agree with me but you just made another very insightful and sincere contribution to our forum.
Larry,
I agree that sea level increase WOULD BE the main potential problem if the sea levels started rapidly accelerating higher. Trillions in property along the worlds coasts could be threatened. Most life would be doing wonderful, with the planet greening up........man made structures very close to the oceans, not so much.
The biggest issue is that climate models are all too warm and as a result, sea level predictions are too high.
Modelers and climate scientists are waiting for the atmosphere to act more like their models......computer simulations using mathematical equations that they are overly confident, represent all the physics when they should be adjusting the models to act more like the atmosphere has been.
Well I have a couple major problems with wxdaves post. I have major problem with agenda. He says it ok for science to be wrong. Fine, Now take algore and co. do they just follow science or have an agenda. Ever seen algores mansion. Ever calculated just much oil this one man uses just to live like a king and demand all the little people go back to caves.
I have a major problem with wxdave or vandy or whoever he is coming and expressing just how conservative he or she is and then demanding we crush conservative thought and values. That is a problem. We do not know wxdave. Much like we never ever had a clue who Obama was because those two people clearly do not know themselves. You should be proud of your values defend them. Not lie who you are what you believe just to stir or troll.
Finally, I have no say here really. So my one opinion his people should know who they are, what they believe and express/defend it, not hide behind some elusion and leave us all guessing. You cannot debate with ghosts. They will be something else tomorrow.
mcfarm,
I appreciate your sincere thoughts and the fact that Dave displays a split personality and there's nobody more aware of it when he is going after somebody here(he says its 20-1 against him but in most of his every of his double digit infractions HE STARTED the fight and has earned my description of a bully.)
When we see this side of his personality, he is exactly and I mean exactly like President Trump, who I have repeatedly described as having despicable character and personality traits. Constantly distorting facts, mean and picking fights while blaming everything on everybody and seeing himself as being picked on by the mob(at least Trump is correct on that last part).
This sounds horrible and is/was reason enough to ban Dave X 4 but somehow, he is still here.........how is that?
It's related in a way to how I separate Trump's horrible traits from his positive, honest agenda for our country. offers..............Dave has another VERY LEGIT AND AUTHENTIC side that he offers.
He is a skilled/experienced meteorologist that, at times has generously shared his valuable views with us. Larry also appreciates this side of Dave and this was one reason that Larry was begging me to keep Dave here.......which I also considered because Larry is tremendously knowledgeable in this field too and recognizes talent when he sees it.
If not for that last point, Dave would be just like vandy, a clone of Trump....... in his words and a predator coming here to attack in order to disrupt a forum that he hates and to enjoy the battle with the people that he hates........ vs making positive contributions.......
So Dave keeps showing me signs of wanting to be a contributor of positive things here and if we can keep steering him in that direction, its good for us and especially good for him as a person.
Getting rewards out of attacking/bullying others is a shallow, counterproductive (sick) way to derive pleasure that feeds a psychological neurosis.
Contributing positive things and sharing thoughtful ideas or honest opinions in a respectful way with those that you disagree with does the 100% opposite. The person acting this way, feels much better about themselves for taking the high road vs attacking the other person and blaming the other person for THEIR bad behavior.
So my goal is to see enough "Good Dave" that includes positive growth on his part to overlook "Bad Dave" that we know is in there.
That said, as moderator I must still put the best interest of the forum as top priority. It would be easy to increase posts just by letting unhinged people from both sides have never ending battles here.
I would love to see more posts but our message here is my message.....................or I WILL NOT be here.
Love, tolerance of others views. Integrity/honestly. Authentic science and facts and positive messages. Above all, using what we offer(especially weather/trading from professionals) to enrich the lives of those that come here.
mcfarm,
I am asking you to do me a favor. I know that you and Dave will never be bosom buddies. You also have strong opinions and can have a short fuse.................but make many positive contributions. Please try to minimize your confrontational words with Dave. ......not just agree now, then go back to old habits but to decide you will really do it.
Think of it this way mcfarm. I know you personally from your years here and I know that you care about the forum. Use our friendship and my thoughts above to motivate yourself to do something that is against your nature but could help you personally. This would make me very happy for us at the forum and to see your personal growth.
This is another epistle from metmike which will mean zero if the 2 discussed above decide to go on the wrong path but at least you know where I stand and if I do end up having to enforce the ban on Dave, there won't be anybody from either side that thinks it was because he disagreed with my or anybody else's politics here.
Dave,
mcfarm just posted in a way that you can use to justify attacking him back, using name calling and your Bad Dave tactics because you are "defending yourself"
I considered deleting his post based on this but he is telling us sincerely how he feels and my post after it would not make as much sense.
More importantly, I am asking you to show me that Bad Dave can be controlled by you in this thread. If you can do that for us, it would be a very positive sign.
Finally, I am not perfect in this or any other realm and can use improvements. Trying to manage this current situation actually leads to my own understanding of human relationships and a positive personal growth(ideally).
mc farm is exactly what is w wrong with trumpian conservatives
Well I have a couple major problems with wxdaves post. I have major problem with agenda. He says it ok for science to be wrong. Fine, Now take algore and co. do they just follow science or have an agenda. Ever seen algores mansion. Ever calculated just much oil this one man uses just to live like a king and demand all the little people go back to caves.
BINGO-- al gore is not a scientist. Yet YOU and others associate Al Gore with ALL climate science.
a try sign of ignorance and lack of critical thinking
I have a major problem with wxdave or vandy or whoever he is coming and expressing just how conservative he or she is and then demanding we crush conservative thought and values.
Met Mike KNOWs who I am knows and knows I am NOT Vandy.
I have NEVER asked to CRUSH all conservative thought. LOL
I mean what the hell are you talking about ?
That is a problem. We do not know wxdave. Much like we never ever had a clue who Obama was because those two people clearly do not know themselves. You should be proud of your values defend them. Not lie who you are what you believe just to stir or troll.
Finally, I have no say here really. So my one opinion his people should know who they are, what they believe and express/defend it, not hide behind some elusion and leave us all guessing. You cannot debate with ghosts. They will be something else tomorrow.
yes its a conspiracy