20 miles to my east,urban blight in Philly. 20 miles to the west,Amish farms!

Poverty is, by and large, a mental condition.

"Poverty is, by and large, a mental condition."

I'm not sure I follow you Tim.

Please explain.

in this country bad decisions keep you down. How in the hell Mike do you think Clacice Thomas ever made it to the supreme court? 

My Dad grew up in the 1920's/30's in the inner city/ghetto of Detroit....on welfare some of the time and never met his Dad but got a degree from the University of Detroit and become a successful Industrial Engineer for Ford, as well as the best husband and father around.

But he had a wonderful, dedicated mother that understood what it takes to be successful and  ingrained a powerful work ethic in him,  along with him  being born with a gifted mind(he still plays skillful chess at almost 95 years old).

What about those that don't have these gifts in the same situation?

you mean all those locked in large urban areas controlled by libs for a hundred years or so? look at those pictures Mike posted....1 a large urban area controlled by libs...2 a rural area where people are expected to go to school, go to work and make sound decisions...just like Clarice Thomas did. Condy Rice did, Hershel Walker did, Vern Jones did the AG of Kentucky did, that black cop who got murdered while helping BKLM did. Break the chains of liberalism or lay down and succumb to it...your choice.

mcfarm,

Those are wonderful examples that you provided of people that I greatly admire. 

Of course I don't need them to understand the point. I was raised by an amazing man that was the quintessential example of somebody that grew up with nothing and worked hard to acquire the American Dream.

Nobody ever gave him anything. He earned every bit of it the hard way..........and passed on much of what he learned to his children, while being the ideal role model for us every day of our lives.

We all complain about stuff. Sometimes silly and trivial things. Sometimes serious things. They might be about our spouse or about our jobs or like Michelle Obama, complain that a white lady had the audacity to cut in front of her in a line at an ice cream store and then, incredibly did not apologize for it. This still enrages Mrs. Obama today.

You can tell alot about people by listening to their complaints..or lack of them.

The more they complain, the more they feel sorry for themselves and play the role of the victim. ....blaming other people for bad things that happen to them.

I was raised by a man that never complained even 1 time while I've known him.  Our Mom had some serious mental health issues and was sometimes abusive (she loved us greatly too) . I got into trouble with the cops half a dozen times, suspended from school twice and had alcohol problems that caused me to spend some time in jail on 3 occassions before I was 21(I completely turned my life around back then, thanks to my Dad never giving up on me). 

If there ever was a parent/husband that had legit reasons to complain, it was Dad. 

When he was 85, I asked him if my memory was messed up or was it true that he never complained once. His response was great.

He said: "I would never even think about complaining to other people about my wife or kids because a real man would never do that. If I complained about what was going on at home, they would have thought that I was not a real man."

But my Dad is also the most assertive person that I've ever known. If there was a situation in which he or others were being treated unfairly, he would focus his attention on changing it and almost always triumphed.

If you wanted to achieve something..........work your butt off to earn it.  Never give up. Always stay loyal to your family with unconditional love........even when they don't deserve it. 

Don't waste time feeling sorry for yourself or blaming others. Get to work turning lemons into lemonade and always stay positive while exerting your powerful influence everywhere around you to make  peoples lives better and the world a better place.

So of course a person like that has the recipe for success.........and they pass it on to those whose lives they touch/children.

But only a fraction of poor/inner city children are blessed to either have a parent like this to lead them out of poverty or be gifted from birth with unique traits that allow them to overcome a horrible environment AND bad parenting. 

This actually, defines many inner city children's situation. Their family lives like this, exactly because their parents don't have the blue print for success. They can't pass on or set good examples......on things that they don't have.

It's not just a matter of them doing what my Dad and those you mentioned did, as if all teenagers are endowed with this special talent/knowledge that is right there in front of them (rich or poor, black or white) and all they need to do is use it.....or reject it.

For the vast majority growing up in poverty, success and breaking the poverty cycle is elusive because they never obtain the "mental condition" that Tim mentioned.

Nobody grows up planning to be a failure. 

They need outside assistance from adult leaders in the community. Mentors, tutors and others that show them the path. 

People that want to share things that they have been well endowed with, to others that are lacking. 

I've described several ideas on this in the past and will retrieve them. 

I posted this previously. It applies to all races. 

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/54201/

The welfare system is not the main problem in this case. Changing the culture requires outside help. These people on welfare and in the inner cities that were raised by single parents(moms) or in dysfunctional families, don't have the understanding or blue prints to know how to be good parents(especially the men) or how to be successful in life. 

There has to be something that interrupts the repeating, viscous cycle via the education system or thru local organizations that connect with vulnerable children, starting at young age to teach them. 

I strongly believe that good parenting classes in high school should be mandatory, especially in low income areas with single parent families. Can you teach love? This is not about religion but that's exactly what the 4 Gospels of Jesus did. .....and its blossomed into Christianity that has profoundly changed the world for the much better. What I'm suggesting is ethics classes combined with parenting classes.  The principles go hand in hand.  Teach children to respect others, the value of human life and what a good parent and spouse should be doing in a successful relationship. Have people in their community(ideally from their neighborhood) come in to share their positive experiences as dad's/husbands and mothers/wifes.  

With absolute certainty, this would have a profoundly positive affect on many children in dysfunctional families. 

https://education.seattlepi.com/would-mandatory-parenting-classes-schools-good-idea-1803.html

Teaching  at school can only do so much. What happens when they leave school to a bad neighborhood with a bad parent(s)?

A high % of bad black fathers are in prison. This is another topic altogether but it's another golden opportunity for other men, regardless of color to step forward and be mentors, role models or good examples. This is absolutely realistic.

How would that work? First you identify the men. Many will be from the suburbs, many, will be older and will have already raised their own children successfully. Some will be very young and want to have a family but haven't found the right partner yet.  I have recruited men like this to be my basketball, soccer and baseball coaches(mostly the younger ones for sports). If you offered money, you will get more than just volunteers but most people like this don't do it for money. There needs to be screening, background checks and child protection classes to avoid predators/pedophiles that will weasel into programs like this to abuse boys. 

Men, filling in as a positive father figures/ideally foster parents(even if they are paid) will and do make a difference in most of these boys lives. The younger the child, the better chance to connect with them before the bad things in the world surrounding them define who they are:

https://www.fosterfocusmag.com/articles/just-foster-dads-part-1

Forget about the welfare or no welfare issue or government, no government's role. Either situation is a recipe for failure if you don't have responsible adults that understand what it takes to be good parents applying their love and skills to the at risk, vulnerable children.

Most parents and spouses learned about parenting/married life from being their parents children. 

We spend billions of dollars on the education system but fail to educate and prepare children for the most important role they will ever have as adults. 

If these are such great idea's why aren't are paid politicians and government on to it?

Our politicians and government don't work for us much of the time and their ideas are usually not creative unless it ties in with something that will help them get elected........promises to give people things like reparations for blacks or free health care or free college. ....or to save the planet(sorry if that offends anybody from one party-but if you look at my belief system today,  its the one that defined the democrats from the old days-which included me). 

Being a good parent(and citizen) is several orders of magnitude more important to individuals/families and society than actions to address a fake climate crisis........even if there was a climate crisis. "

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Addition, 6-20-20: With regards to the education system, I know that tutoring is available at many schools and is sometimes free for lower income families. One problem is that you can't force this on a kid outside the regular school day without permission from a parent. Being more assertive in applying tutoring for these children that are falling behind is essential. The ones falling behind  in elementary school, almost all define the ones farthest behind by the time they get into high school. By then, it's almost impossible to turn things around,  New learning in the scholastic setting builds on a foundation of previous learning. If you can't do basic math during the early years, it can cause cumulative learning issues as you get into more advanced math and you just fall father and farther behind. Nobody, child or adult enjoys doing something they are not good at. Falling behind in subjects causes them to embrace the idea that they are not good in those areas which causes additional negative reinforcement and stifles motivation. The trick would be to identify as many as possible at a young age and give extra tutoring to them. Volunteers outside the school system are wonderful(pj did this for awhile in Seattle) but there just are not enough resources and too many kids. PAYING outside tutors could generate more of them. We also have to face the genetics and IQ disparities in children. Some children have poor unsuccessful parents because Mom and Dad were not blessed with brilliant minds. Just like we get the color of our eyes, hair and skin from Mommy and Daddy, we also get their brains. I can appreciate the immense challenges of teachers, who have a classroom of kids with IQ's that might range from 130 to 90. The smartest kids are not being challenged enough, while the less capable are constantly struggling. I think somebody in the school system would understand this better than me and there are limits to how much any person can achieve..............but each of us has massive potential that can be maximized. The idea is to create the best possible environment for children that have bad environments so they can maximize what their individual potential is. Some are not cut out for college but NOBODY was born to drop out of school and commit crimes that put them in prison. 

                         By pj - June 21, 2020, 2:02 a.m.            

mm: "Volunteers outside the school system are wonderful(pj did this for awhile in Seattle) but there just are not enough resources and too many kids. "

I volunteer tutored for 19 years in Seattle and 3 years since we've been in Las Vegas. But "they" sure didn't make it easy for me here. Had to contact several different schools in LV, before finally finding a charter school that was interested in having me tutor. Even then had to go though lots of paperwork, pay for my own fingerprinting etc, before being "allowed" to do so. Of course this year it ended when the schools shut down. 

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Muhammad Ali’s son says dad would have hated ‘racist’ Black Lives Matter            

                By TimNew - June 21, 2020, 7:06 a.m.            

I understand the intentions on this PJ,  but this is one of the many many areas where assorted government agencies shoot themselves in the foot

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Muhammad Ali’s son says dad would have hated ‘racist’ Black Lives Matter            

                By metmike - June 21, 2020, 1:57 p.m.            

Thanks much pj!

You are the quintessential example of somebody that is part of the solution vs just telling us what they think the solution should be and putting all the blame on others, while not lifting a finger to do anything themselves.

It's people like you that REALLY do make a difference. Every encounter tutoring with a challenged child helps. We can never predict the eventual outcome but it can range from infinitesimal to colossal. 

My wonderful Dad taught me to play chess in 1966 for instance because he was a great dad that wanted to share a great game with his son. Never did he think that he was raising a chess coach that would end up coaching 3,500 kids and run scholastic chess tournaments. 

Before I took over at our first school, 25 years ago. They had chess there because of a very sick man's devotion to the game. I just happened to be helping Tim McLaughlin because I signed my kids up to play chess at Scott School. If not for Tim, I would have never imagined the potential and benefits for kids playing chess.

Tim died in the middle of the chess season in 1995 and I knew immediately what I wanted to do. But without Tim being there before me hand, I could have never known that because there never would have been chess at our sons school and no way would I have thought of that idea(I was not an active chess player) ........or without Dad teaching me.

So we do things for others out of the kindness of our hearts with no expectations except the hope that it will make them better people and the world a better place. Sometimes it doesn't seem to help much. Other times, in ways that we never expected, it blossoms into something big and pays exponential dividends. Lives that we touch positively, touch the lives of others and it makes a huge difference..........but it all has to start somewhere.

I am honored to know somebody like you pj the scholastic math tutor!

What I mean by "Mental Condition" is that poor people engage in certain behaviors that lead to/keep them in poverty.  Poverty, or lack thereof,  is the sum of the choices we make.  Bad things can happen to put you there,  your choices are what keep you there.

I agree with that completely Tim and was not trying to challenge your statement.

If we can get inside the brains of young people that are in poverty and change their thinking, they can escape.

Did not take it as a challenge. Saw it as an opportunity to elaborate.

Yes, wonderful, I was hoping that was the case.

When I go into my long winded epistle mode, it's sometimes to bolster a point to show a particular view that somebody else might not agree with(often it can be non MarketForum posters) and didn't want it misconstrued in this case. 

I often express my thoughts with the assumption that people already have a general idea of what I am thinking making questions nearly inevitable. It's a shortcoming that I have put very little effort into overcoming <G>