still figuring the correct vote
22 responses | 0 likes
Started by mcfarm - April 25, 2021, 11:51 a.m.

Tim, don know if you have seen this but embarrassing is the only word to describe. One of the earliest calls the "media" made I believe and now what?

By metmike - April 25, 2021, 12:24 p.m.
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Thanks mcfarm,

You brought this guy up back in December and I was just as impressed as you watching his video.   You can read my comments at the link below.

Then..................I investigated him.

He's super brilliant........and has used that in the past to sell people on things that are sometimes not true.

His presentation sounds pretty convincing to me and he knows more than me, so I can't tell you if he's full of crap or not on this...............maybe its legit.

But for sure he has a documented history that tells us to be weary of anything that he says.............especially because he is a master at saying it convincingly, whether its legit or not.

                mail in ballots explained again            

                            6 responses |                

                Started by mcfarm - Dec. 13, 2020, 7:40 a.m.    

One item is that if this is so compelling, why didn't Trumps team of hundreds of people and millions of dollars, throwing everything but the kitchen sink at this(often using the contents inside the unflushed toilet) but came up empty...............somehow did not latch on to this technology?

This guy is CLEARLY in the business of selling HIMSELF for a living(look at his past). Why was he unable to sell himself to the Trump team?

Possible reason: Because they knew it would prove that Biden won?

Other possible reason: Because they knew it would not work?

Other possible reason: They vetted him and found out the same stuff I did. 

Other possible reason: One that I can't think of at the moment but the creative minds of those who want to believe that Biden stole the election will give me. 

By TimNew - April 25, 2021, 1:32 p.m.
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I've been hoping for actual audits of ballots.   As I've been saying,  we know the counts were accurate, but were the ballots legitimate?   If actual audits say the are,  I'll accept the results.  But there has been an awful lot of resisitance to such audits.

By WxFollower - April 25, 2021, 3:39 p.m.
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The 2020 election is done. Joe Biden is our constitutionally elected POTUS, like him or not. But I'm still for audits, UNBIASED audits open to the press and both parties. However, what I've read about this AZ audit to this point is concerning:

Arizona Senate election audit: What you're seeing on the video feeds (

 Bias of AZ central website from the link below:

 "The following are AZ Central’s overall bias and reliability scores according to our Ad Fontes Media ratings methodology.

Reliability: 44.33

Bias: -6.69

Reliability scores for articles and shows are on a scale of 0-64. Scores above 24 are generally acceptable; scores above 32 are generally good.

Bias scores for articles and shows are on a scale of -42 to + 42, with higher negative scores being more left, higher positive scores being more right, and scores closer to zero being the most neutral and/or balanced."

 So, reliability is pretty high and bias is only slightly left, making it a pretty good source imo:

AZ Central Bias and Reliability - Ad Fontes Media


They include articles from the AZ Republic, the oldest AZ paper. That paper endorsed mostly Republicans until Trump:

"Historically, The Republic has tilted conservative editorially. It endorsed President George W. Bush in both the 2000 and 2004 presidential elections. On October 25, 2008, the paper endorsed Arizona Senator John McCain for president.

 On September 27, 2016, the paper endorsed Hillary Clinton for the 2016 presidential election, marking the first time in the paper's 126-year history that it had endorsed a Democratic candidate for president.

In the paper's 2016 editorial decision to take the further step of actually endorsing a Democratic candidate for the first time, the paper argued that despite Clinton's flaws, it could not support Republican nominee Donald Trump, denouncing him as 'not conservative' and 'not qualified.' The board also argued that Trump had 'deep character flaws.... (and) ... stunning lack of human decency, empathy and respect,' suggesting that it was evidence he 'doesn't grasp our national ideals.'"

 They sound like me <G>:

 The Arizona Republic - Wikipedia

By metmike - April 25, 2021, 3:57 p.m.
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"If actual audits say the are,  I'll accept the results."

Didn't hear one republican, even 1 time ask for anything like this in 2016.

By TimNew - April 25, 2021, 7:46 p.m.
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"If actual audits say the are,  I'll accept the results."

Didn't hear one republican, even 1 time ask for anything like this in 2016.

Such a silly comment.  I don't think any rational people accepted that the Russians stuffed the ballot boxes in 2016.  I also don't recall massive rule changes eliminating basic ID verification in absentee ballots coupled with mass mall in ballots mailed to anyone, living or dead,  here or there, in the voters role DB.  Add in massive ballot harvesting, all of which is totally documented.

The 2020 election was ripe for invalid ballots and there were many demonstrations of a "By Any Means Necasary" mentality.   I am not insisting that there were enough invalid ballots to change the results,  but I would really like to see  an audit to prove that was not the case. There is a significant and consistent resistance to said audits.  There are continued efforts being shut down in my state. I'm on the front lines for that one. 

What possible motivation would there be to shut down efforts to audit ballots?  Making sure they were legitimate? 

By mcfarm - April 25, 2021, 9:18 p.m.
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Bet that motivation, where ever it comes from, the left, the far left, and then all the moderates who claim to be independent ha on that one, is amazingly similar to the motivation of those who are against voter ID  to begin RACISTS DON'T YA KNOW

By metmike - April 25, 2021, 10:35 p.m.
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"Such a silly comment.  I don't think any rational people accepted that the Russians stuffed the ballot boxes in 2016"

You totally missed the point Tim.

Let me repeat it so its more clear.

In 2016, NO republicans complained about anything to do with the results of the election because their guy won.

All the complaints, in 2016 ...........and they went beyond just the Russian false narrative, including that the voting computers were hacked(sound familiar?)came from the party that lost and related to the Republicans cheating. Voter recounts desired by Clinton in the close states using Jill Stein and many on that side just not accepting the results.

In 2020, NO democrats complained about anything to do with the results of the election because their guy won.

ALL the complaints in 2020.............which covered everything imagineable, including countless items that were proven to be false allegations, over and over....were from the right...........because THEIR GUY LOST. This is the only reason.

After each of them came back NOT showing fraud or were frivolous,  we keep hearing that there just were not enough investigations or audits. 

Incredibly, the only 6 states that had all this fraud, just happened to be the 6 states that Trump lost by the least amount and would have needed to prove massive fraud in to flip the election.

Amazing that in 2016, there was no complaints about fraud in 50 out of 50 states by the republicans.

Even more amazing that in 2020, there were not complaints about fraud in 44 out of 50 but just coincidentally, in just 6 states THERE WAS MASSIVE FRAUD and in just those states Trump lost by the closest margins.

In 2 elections, no complaints about fraud  in 94 out of 100 states but 6 states had massive fraud...............and those also, just happened to be the states Trump needed to convince people that the election was stolen from him.

We keep hearing that it doesn't make sense that Trump lost those states because of X, Y and Z.

Look at the popular vote. He lost by over 7 million votes Tim. Biden's margin of victory in the popular vote was GREATER than Clintons. It makes total sense as does the mail in votes being strongly for Biden because Trump told his people to not vote by mail.

It's been almost half of a year since Biden clearly won the election by every objective reasonable standard and you guys are still claiming there was massive cheating, some of you still believe it was the reason that he won.

If Trump had won, there would be an exactly 0% chance that you would still be squawking about the results and upset over perceived massive fraud.

I looked very closely for and at legit fraud before and after the dozens of situations and posted several incidents of LEGIT fraud that I found based on legal charges and REAL evidence.

Show me some that I didn't post. Not speculation but PROVEN fraud. Theoretical or possible fraud for 5+ months is just wasting our time Tim.

I believe that this will not be the last time we have this topic brought up and thats fine with me. I imagine, like I showed previously,  that they will be able to uncover a few pockets of fraud and very numerous cases of individual fraud. .......which took place in those 6 well as in some of the other 44 well as in 2016, when that fraud didn't bother you. 

If you guys only care about uncovering fraud, why limit the investigations or audits to just 6 of the 50 states???

By metmike - April 26, 2021, 12:26 a.m.
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What's sort of funny, is that I've actually posted about proven fraud...... and showed much more of it than all you guys combined. Possibly 10+ times more LEGIT/PROVEN fraud than you guys combined!

But maybe I missed some of yours. Again, PROVEN fraud, not speculative, theoretical, suspected or possible fraud. It must be proven with facts that can  be used to prosecute in court.

All my fraud met that standard.

Part of the reason for this, is that I didn't just limit my search to the 6 states that Trump convinced you all,  had all the fraud in just the 2020 election that he lost. 

Please show me all the proven fraud that you guys have,  related to this election and I'll show you.... again the proven fraud that  I found.

One would think that in a thread like this,  proven fraud would be listed in  one of the first threads. 

Thanks in advance!

BTW, I too hope they investigate and do more audits to catch the fraud that DID happen with 100% certainty. ....but not just in the 6 states that Trump lost. 

We have 44 other states where at least "some" fraud likely occurred, as I will show you....again,  shortly with my NON Trump biased results of proven fraud. 

By TimNew - April 26, 2021, 7:26 a.m.
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I completely got your point Mike.   We didn't complain when Trump won.  ZZZZzzzzzz.

I am saying there is a much higher potential in the last election (2020) for Ballot fraud.  I want audits.   Many are fighting these audits.  Why? If I were confident in my product,  I would welcome audits that would do nothing but prove my credibility.

By metmike - April 26, 2021, 8:30 a.m.
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But when the audits don’t show what you want them too, then you ignore those results and insist we need more audits to uncover the speculative, possible fraud.

Michigan did it’s most comprehensive post election audit in history earlier this year.

Why aren’t you happy with those results?

I’ll post them when back on my computer.

Michigan is one of those 6 states that we were told over and over that there was major fraud going on. So they did an audit.

Do you accept the results?

It’s exactly what you’ve been asking for in exactly one of the contested states with all the fraud......we’ve been told.

Or maybe you missed that news because you go to news sources that tell you the news the way you like to here it and they never covered that.

Georgia did 3 different hand counts that confirmed the results on all of them...but trump still wanted them to FIND 13,000 extra votes for him.......that were never there.

It’s been 5 months now and each time this topic pops up, you guys still have no fraud......but insist there was tons of fraud.

I’m planning to show you my fraud later today. Where is yours please?

Other than a complete audit of 6 states, at what point will you stop crying fraud wolf?

By now, with almost all the investigations, audits and hand recounts confirming the results you might at least begin to start acknowledging that this was the most secure election in history.

By TimNew - April 26, 2021, 9:22 a.m.
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Couple things.  

I am not insisting there was fraud.   I am insisting the potential for fraud was very real. There werwe unnecasary rule changes, juistfiied by the covid emergency, that all but eliminated verification of id on absentee ballots.  Once again,  I want audits of the ballots,  signature verification, etc.

The "Comprehensive Michigan Audit" verified counts.   I have no doubt the counts were very close to accurate.  The audit in Michigan did nothing to verify ID. That effort was rejected by a 4-3 decision by the Michigan Supreme Court. 

By metmike - April 26, 2021, 12:30 p.m.
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metmike: Here's the results of the most comprehensive post election audit in Michigan history.

If this isn't good enough for you guys.........NOTHING will be.

Post-election audit report on Michigan’s election released

The Bureau of Elections report summarized more than 250 audits from across the state

LANSING, Mich. (WILX) - Thursday the Michigan Bureau of Elections released its report on the 250 post-election audits conducted across the state.

The report affirms the accuracy and integrity of Michigan’s November 2020 election.

“The audits are concrete evidence that November’s election was fair, secure and accurate, and that the results reflect the will of Michigan voters,” said Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson. “Legislators should be working to build on this success, rather than seeking to undo the policies that made it possible.”

In light of accusations of voter fraud, the report highlighted the ethical, bipartisan and transparent nature of the audits. The audits were conducted by Republican, Democratic and nonpartisan officials across the state, and served as further evidence debunking lingering conspiracy theories about the election.

Election officials audited the ballots cast for president in Antrim County, which briefly produced inaccurate unofficial results on election night in November. There they found that the Dominion machines used there accurately counted ballots throughout the county. Officials also conducted a statewide audit exercise, by hand-counting votes cast for president on more than 18,000 ballots randomly selected across the state, which affirmed the outcome of the presidential election as previously determined by counting machines.

The investigation got more detailed than counting ballots, however. There were audits of absentee ballot-counting boards, which found that significantly more were in balance or explained than had been at the close of the county canvass.

This means that in each of those boards the number of ballots matched the number of names in the poll book, or that the imbalance could be explained in such a way that the counting board would be recountable. The finding underscores the accuracy of the counting boards and that county canvassers needed more time to finish the canvass process.

The full report is available below.

   BOE 2020 Post Election Audit Report 

By metmike - April 26, 2021, 12:40 p.m.
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As promised, here is the proven fraught that I showed previously from previous elections as well as another issue with voting but please note my position on THIS election was that it was the most secure in history.......and I was looking objectively for fraud for months, including evaluating every fraudulent Trump allegation that twisted the minds of tens of millions of his loyal followers.

Why aren't you outraged at Trump for using you like this?


                By metmike - Nov. 11, 2020, 7:24 p.m.            


1,298 Proven instances of voter fraud


1,121 Criminal convictions


48 Civil penalties


95 Diversion program


17 Judicial finding


17 Official finding

                353 counties in 29 states with voter registration over 100%            

                                                              Started by metmike - Nov. 9, 2020, 6:35 p.m.    

By metmike - April 26, 2021, 12:53 p.m.
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OK, I did what I promised yesterday.................showed proven fraud.

I look forward to seeing any proven fraud from you guys now.

Tim: "I am insisting the potential for fraud was very real."

metmike: You've had 5 months of speculating, with audits, investigations and recounts and still only have speculating? 

I agree though, that there WAS potential but the evidence has profoundly shown NO big fraud......which is why this was the most secure election in history because it was the most scrutinized election in a very wide margin and after all this, there still is no evidence of major fraud.

If that is not true, please show the evidence, like I just did. 

You bought into Trump's bs fake narrative and lies for 2 months, which was gushed out at all the far right sites to propagandize the Trump cult, so they would not trust or accept the results of the 2020 election.

This happened exactly like that with 100% certainty. 

Once people are convinced of something, it's almost impossible to change their minds, no matter how wrong they are and no matter how much truth you hit them over the head with....especially when they go to news sources that tell them the news the way they like to hear it to REINFORCE the brainwash.

By WxFollower - April 26, 2021, 3:43 p.m.
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 As I posted earlier in this thread about this AZ "audit" (see the newspaper article I linked to), this AZ "audit" is anything but objective. Besides being run by pro-Trump GOPers , they were caught with BLUE pens! That should tell you all you need to know to determine the objectivity of this audit:

 Why Arizona election law is specific on ink color used on ballots (

 Anyway, Joe Biden is our Constitutionally elected POTUS and that's not changing. All this "audit" is likely going to do is to get Trump nuts in a frenzy and increase the chance that they'll do another attack of some sort like they did on 1/6/21. All because of a big lie.


By metmike - April 26, 2021, 5:55 p.m.
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Thanks Larry!

Interesting story on them using blue pens.

This was a no brainer understanding explained to them clearly before hand from what it appears.

Why the heck would anybody have a blue pen?

I would be way more suspicious of this than most of the other unsubstantiated fraud so far.....because they got caught "red" handed with a marking tool that was banned. 

And based on tens of millions of people that insist there was major fraud and some of them being so extremely devoted to Trump and especially seeing all the made up/alleged fraud from those claiming that Biden stole the election............heck yes, I would suspect them of fraud.

We watched the ones alleging there was fraud, commit fraud over and over.

Well, at least I learned about Mike Lindell. Always seemed like a nice guy with a great story.

Just a lying snake oil salesmen that will do anything for a buck or for politics because he worships Donald Trump.

  mike lindells election tape            

                            11 responses |                

                Started by mcfarm - Feb. 6, 2021, 8:58 a.m.    

By TimNew - April 27, 2021, 5:11 a.m.
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I apologize for my poor communication skills.

As I have (I though clearly) stated several times, there have been no audits of signature/id verification on absentee ballots.  Yes,  Michigan found the counts of registered voters matched the counts of ballots,  but as I have stated (I thought clearly) several times, the voter roles are hopelessly inaccurate, loaded with dead people and people who have moved. IOW,  very ripe for anyone who wanted to make a little effort in casting absentee ballots.  That is the type of audit we need, and the type that has been refused by assorted courts and government agencies.

It appears they are doing an in depth audit in Az,  but it appears we are already trying to discredit that before we see the results.

Democrats are screaming that this is a republican effort to find excuses to  "supppress the votes".  As we have seen, democrats think dead felons have as much right to vote as anyone. So a judge has once again halted the audit while the dems put together their argument for why audits verifying voter's id are bad.

Odd how much effort has gone into stopping these types of audits. Making sure the counts are accurate is just fine.  Just don't you be messing around with verifying ID.  Nothing to see here, right?  We had the most secure election in history.  That's what we were told and any effort to verify that is completely unecessary.

Arizona judge HALTS election audit, as Republicans make final play to uncover election fraud — RT USA News

By metmike - April 27, 2021, 11:07 a.m.
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 "it appears we are already trying to discredit that before we see the results."

Thanks Much Tim!

I guess you haven't looked at the biased clowns actually doing the audit Tim, led by an avid Republican, who took down many of his pro Trump social media posts recently. To be perfectly honest, even before we find out the results, I do NOT trust them one bit either. I wish they could have some other firm doing this because this is the WRONG firm.  

Election conspiracies live on with audit by Arizona GOP

"The audit has been beset by amateur mistakes that critics view as evidence the auditors are not up to the task. Hand counters began the day using blue pens, which are banned in ballot counting rooms because they can be read by ballot machines."

metmike: Are you kidding me? Everybody and their brother doing ballot auditing process would have been instructed NOT to use blue or black pens. 

There can only be 2 reasons for this. 

1. Blatant ignorance or incompetence about a key element involved in the ballot auditing process...............which should have disqualified the firm conducting this audit immediately because they are obviously not training the people properly/up for the job based on no brainer standards being violated from the get go. 

2. Intentionally violating the obvious rule in order to commit fraud. This, sadly  has defined many of the Republican attempts to discredit the election results, with many fake allegations of fraud. .....that were proven to be false. This also should disqualify them immediately, especially in light of the REAL motivation for all these actions based on everything that has taken place the last 5 months.

If the objective was to objectively and honestly  find fraud related to the election, no matter where it was, ALL the searches for fraud would not be confined to very limited locations, that are a tiny fraction of the US and are ALL in places needed to flip the election. The one and only way  that it could be that way is if the objective is really to flip the election or show fraud in a place that feeds the false Trump narrative.

The proof has just been provided early.

When actually looking for fraud, I was able to provide over 100 examples of it, that was actually prosecuted and proven looking at all 50 states in prior elections.

For you guys looking to flip the election, to date you have found ZERO evidence because you are not really looking for fraud(or the search would expand to 50 states) You are looking for evidence to feed the false narrative that "Biden stole the election" and been busted tons of times making up fraud(note Mike Linell's concocted production above).

Would a group of people that has been doing this for 5 months, possibly try to do it again here? Hell yes they would and the early evidence, already suggests dishonesty. Almost all the evidence the past 5 months has shown the republicans doing almost all the unethical things. 


There was some fraud in the last election, no doubt. I showed you numerous examples of it in the past(not systemic however). If you guys want to start uncovering some legit fraud, you need to stop trying to convince people that Biden stole the election and actually  get serious about looking for  real fraud................everywhere( not just hand picked spots in 6 states where it didn't happen...........which has gotten you ZERO so far).

Eventually some LEGIT fraud will show up somewhere and I already know what the response will be by one side.

SEE WE TOLD YOU THERE WAS WIDESPREAD FRAUD and the rest of it is being covered up. You watch. That's what will happen. 

This would be like a farmer, during a severe drought, telling everyone for 5 months that its actually a flood. Then when the first light rain in 5 months falls, screaming "see, I told you that its a flood!"

This was, by far the most secure presidential election in recent elections. 

If not, then after 5 months of the MOST investigations and audits and recounts in history, is the amount of fraud confirmed still near ZERO?

Again, if that's not true, please show the fraud based on that....................not theoretical fraud that could have happened and been found with even more investigating and audits.

The amount found so far with the MOST investigations/audits and recounts please. 

By TimNew - April 27, 2021, 11:55 a.m.
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The evidence would be in valid ballot audits.   So far,  none have been allowed,  other than AZ.  ALtho they are trying to halt that.  I have not looked too closely at AZ,  sounds like there may be problems.  I'll do some more research.

But claiming there is no evidence because there have been no audits is not really honest. 

I don't know what an honest and thorough audit of ballot signatures/id's would find.  I suspect there is a good possibility that we'd find some fraud.  I know first hand that there were serious vulnerabilities. Did no one take advantage of them?  That's certainly possible.

But saying there is no fraud because no one has looked?

By metmike - April 27, 2021, 12:19 p.m.
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"But saying there is no fraud because no one has looked?"

Your definition of looking is everywhere that they haven't looked yet but nowhere where they already looked. 

I would bet that your side could have found numerous items of fraud if the objective was to find fraud from the election in the US.

Again, like your narrow definition of what looking is above, you also have a narrow definition on's only fraud if it happens in 6 states and particularly, fraud in large counties that have the most votes.

Dang, what a coincidence. That just happens to coincide exactly with what Trumps needed to flip the election.

How about a 1 in a billion chance of coincidence.............which is not coincidence.

As soon as something turns up, which is bound to happen, then we will hear "See, they finally looked and now we found some of the corruption that is being covered up"

I was able to find tons of fraud......with LESS investigating, LESS audits and LESS recounts.

You must ask yourself. Why has your side come up empty?

Without objectively looking at the facts, the answer will continue to allude you, no matter how many times I beat you over the heat with the authentic facts.

You are arguing with somebody that has been/is looking just as hard as you for authentic fraud and exposing it here, the minute it shows up.............even the speculated fraud BEFORE it was busted.

The difference is your subjective definitions that explain why there is no fraud so far and ignore the massive facts that completely contradict that.

By TimNew - April 27, 2021, 1:28 p.m.
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You must ask yourself. Why has your side come up empty?

I really don't know how else to say this, and I've said it at least a half dozen times. I'll say it one more time, and then stop beating meyhead against the wall.

Every attempt to audit the id of voters has been thwarted by courts and/or government agencies. AZ is finally looking at the validity of voters,   but we're not gonna believe their findings because they used blue pens.

One more time.  I don't care about vote counts.  I'm pretty sure they are close to accurate.   I hope they don't mark up ballots with their blue pens,  but I don't care if they do.  I am not interested in proving counts, which has been done ad nauseum.

I want verification  of the voters.  

By metmike - April 27, 2021, 2:46 p.m.
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Thanks much Tim!