summarizing my views about the mRNA jab
16 responses | 0 likes
Started by GunterK - Aug. 28, 2021, 3:07 p.m.

During the recent past, I have made numerous posts about the vaxx. These posts did not represent my own imaginations… rather,they presented scientists who have a more cautious stance on the vaxx, conflicting the Dr Fauci party-line.  For this, I have been called a troll, brainwashed, obsessed, etc etc.

I have been here on this forum for 2 decades… I like this forum and the people who post here.I don’t want to disturb the peace here and cause others to be irritated.  Of course, my intention never was to irritate, but to share. Since it turns out that I have become a nuisance here, I have to ask myself, why even bother? However, please permit me to summarize my view on this subject.

None of you know me personally. I am not a rebel or trouble-maker…. I am more like a good soldier who follows orders. When the virus appeared, I eagerly listened to our health agencies for updates and advice, ready to follow their recommendations.

However, it shocked me when a document appeared that ordered hospital doctors to count every death as a Covid death. How could a government agency order such deception… such fraud?  Where there is deception, there must be a motive/agenda.

Shortly thereafter, a group of doctors appeared. They claimed to have a cure for Covid… and they were shut down quickly… all reference to them disappeared. Dr Fauci himself tried to malign the recommended medication, a product that had been used safely for 70 years.  How many lives could have been saved, had this information not been hidden? Why??? Any logically thinking person must ask, what is their motive, their agenda?

And now we are in the vaccine era, and the same people/agencies are again suppressing important information. A few days ago, somebody here ridiculed me for talking about “suppression”.Somebody has to be totally oblivious to reality, not to see this. The MSM totally ignores negative vaxx events, and posters on social media are quickly censored when they do. Even the President is now involved, demanding more suppression of information.

What is suppressed? Any opinions offered by experts in their field, that oppose the party-line… as well as the reporting of facts/events/severe adverse reactions to the jab (including a large number of deaths),that would shed a bad light on the mRNA jab.

The majority of people simply won’t know about these things, because our media never reports anything negative about the vaxx… they would have to look for more information elsewhere, and most of them don’t.

So, now, the country is divided. On one side, you have Dr. Fauci and his team… Dr Fauci has made himself to be the God of Science… any scientist with a different opinion is accused of being “against science” (with the term “science” meaning what he, Dr Fauci, believes)

On the other side, you have an increasing large number of scientists who warn about the mRNA jabs.Some of them are concerned about immediate severe side-effects (some of them have caused life-time damage),others are concerned about problems that could occur in the future.

Some of these contributors are simple family doctors who report the damage the vaxx has done to their patients, others are highly educated and qualified scientists in their fields, and some of them may be “quacks”.I would say, many of them know more about this subject than Dr Fauci. (and certainly more than anyone of us here on this forum)

The vast majority of them have no agenda, other than to warn their fellow human beings. We, the regular folks, don’t have the education to make our own decisions in matters of the pandemic. We have to listen to somebody more qualified,

How do I fit in? I am only the messenger. I am not a virologist… Why was I posting? Because I am aware that some forum friends only listen to the Dr. Faucii team, which deprives them of being better-informed.

As I found out, many readers here simply don’t want to hear anything that goes against their beliefs.


One thing that I have frowned upon is the frequent use of the term “science”… used so often by Dr Fauci Most certainly, this term is intended to impress the masses, and set himself up as the supreme authority.

An important component of science is open debate. And open debate simply does not exist on the mainstream internet media. That’s why scientists with opposing views are forced to use “outlier” platforms to be heard. And this unfortunate situation is then turned against them, by calling their comments B.S. only because of the platform they were forced to use. It’s a no-win situation for them. 

Dr Fauici’s team calls all opposing views “misinformation”,sometimes even “dangerous misinformation”… these terms we heard over and over again…. a simple way to discredit others, no matter how correct they may be..Also a great way to make the masses even more scared and controllable than they already are.

This is not how real science works. This is not how the USA is supposed to work.

The other important component of real science is reliable data.

Our health agencies have already shown their colors last spring, when they manipulated “Covid deaths” numbers. Numbers are meaningless when they are manipulated to feed an agenda.

There have also been investigations into “Covid hospitalization”numbers , after it was revealed that, at some locations, a majority of the “Covid hospitalization” cases were people who came to the E.R. for other reasons.

The “infection cases” data rely on a rather ambiguous test, as was discussed here just a few days ago.(the inventor of the PCR test said “it can take a miniscul thing and turn it into something big”… great!!!).

And then there are questions about the reliability of this test. Just recently, a University found a suspiciously high number of positives, re-tested the subjects and found a 60% error rate.

This May, the CDC changed their procedures. They are now using different PCR test settings to look only at severe cases when testing vaccinated people, while using the old high settings for unvaxxed people.This would result in the CDC showing a disproportionate number of unvaxxed cases.

It is my understanding that the CDC now recommends other tests, and leaves the choice up to states or testing stations.If so, they don’t even have a uniform testing procedure.

So, when my local newspaper tells me that the 7-day daily average of new cases is 4238.1,  I can assume that the real number is somewhere between 2,000 and 5,000.

I can get some kind of vague idea about what is going on, but I wouldn’t call such procedures “scientific”

And if you test vaccinated people differently from unvaccinated people, then the data can be totally false.


I am fully aware that scientists have experimented with “mRNA therapy” for 3 decades.They have tried to cure cancer and fix genetic disorders with it (hence the term “gene therapy”).  Quite possibly, in the future, it will become an accepted tool in medicine

The Covid19 virus was a new subject… a new experiment for them.They were starting from point zero. As time goes on, more and more will be known about it.

However, now a new enemy has arrived… the Delta. Vaxx efficacy has dropped from 96% to a dismal 39%, once the Delta showed up.The scientists are back to a new point zero

In the meantime, many on the pro-vaxx team still quote statistics (such as increasing/decreasing case numbers) that show the progress made since the beginning, while ignoring the fact that the arrival of the Delta has created another point zero.

When the pro-vaxx team does show you how today unvaxxed areas are hit harder by the Delta than vaxxed areas, they don’t talk about the many locations around the globe, where vaccinated people are being hit harder than unvaccinated ones. (the extreme case being Gibraltar, with a mind-boggling month-to-month increase of 2,500%.. and they are 100% vaccinated)


Anyway, my only goal was to present alternate views, to fill the void created by the Dr Fauci team. For this, I was called “brain washed”

Sure, if one only listens to those alternate views, one could become “brainwashed”…

By the same token, if one only listens to the pro-vaxx team, one will also become brainwashed… and I do believe that many people on that side are severely brainwashed. They don’t even want to hear cautioning voices,  voices they should be listening to.

Many of the doctors objecting to the mRNA, are concerned about the immediate serious side effects (including death), immediatly after vaccination.... others are concerned about the long-term impact of the mRNA jab.  As Dr. Cole (linked recently) so eloquently stated... nobody knows he long-term side effects.  Many other experts predict specific  serious illnesses in the future, some of them predict "catastrophic events".  What if just one of these so-called "quacks" is correct?  Let's prey that they are all wrong. 

In the meantime, in Canada, doctors were warned that their license would be suspended if they spoke out against the vaccine.   In Ireland, a family doctor had her license suspended because she described on social media the harm the vaxx had done to her patients.

All this is not normal!!!  This is not how medical science is supposed to  work. 

And now, the FDA has rushed out an approval of one of the mRNA jabs, without having done any long-term study as they usually do??? Isn’t anybody wondering about any of this???

The term “nefarious” was used for sites that give the other scientists a place to communicate.

Nefarious? I see the masses intentionally being kept misinformed, I saw them locked up in their homes, their businesses destroyed. I hear the rethoric…forced vaccinations for everyone (get vaxxed, if you want to eat). monthly booster shots,,  re-education camps for those who resist…

Nefarious? Who is nefarious???   this sure has a nefarious ring to it.


I have never recommended for anyone here on this forum to refuse the jab… I am not qualified to do so. I have only tried to present scientists who have an opinion different from those who say “the vaxx is safe, take the shot and shut up!” With time, more and more info on themRNA jab will be available.

Some 160 mill people are now vaccinated, and they are still alive, and the vaxx has not killed them. So, if you are vaxxed, relax for right now… and if you are worried about catching the virus from an unvaccinated person, just put on your N95 mask.

On the other hand, another 160 mill people are unvaccinated, and they are also still alive,and the virus has not killed them.. If you are one of those, do the same.When you meet a vaccinated person, put on your N95 mask, because vaccinated persons are now also “spreaders”


sorry 'bout the long post.  I'm done!

By metmike - Aug. 28, 2021, 6:37 p.m.
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Thanks Gunter,

I would like to apologize to the forum and especially the half dozen readers that contacted me, starting earlier this Summer about this. Some wondering why I was allowing Gunter to abuse our forum this way.

Gunter has made 200 posts about this topic this Summer and almost all of them were pushing junk science, anti COVID vaccine,  cherry picked, anomalous, outlier data/studies/sources, that in each and every case, I confronted with authentic science, data, evidence. ...... to correct his constantly, fatally flawed points that were often from sources with the least amount of credibility on the internet(which I was also able to show). All from the perspective of a moderator, an independent, objective scientist of 39 years that has become an elite fact checker and very knowledgeable about medicine and COVID......who's life is devoted to practicing the scientific method and who's existence here, for no pay is mainly to enlighten people's minds and make the world a better place.

In this case, the totally proven and indisputable fact is that our hospitals and morgues are filling up with mostly unvaccinated people and thousands of lives are being lost.
Not the theoretical/speculative lives The right now, this very moment deaths happening because people refuse to get vaccinated. The vaccine has a massive, life saving reward vs the small risks.

Many of these very sick and dead people are the result of the lies about the vaccine that are being imposed on the brains of those who don't understand the science and safety, some who are very intelligent people.........even doctors. 

Gunter continues to state that he never told anybody not to get vaccinated and that he was just providing the forum with alternative views of scientific information. 

Wow. Neurotically/obsessively posting about how the vaccine doesn't work and how its killing people........using the totally anti scientific method I described above, to the tune of 200 posts and you see yourself as an information warrior?

How about the biggest source of dis/mis information that MarketForum  has ever witnessed in its 2+ decades of existence by an extraordinarily wide margin. 

Now, you want us to see YOU as the victim? The guy that  was really only trying to open minds to tune us into censored views from sources that have the real truth which is being covered up by the evil MSM and government gatekeepers, like Fauci  and the CDC, who only want to control us and are all lying to us about everything........but only your sources know the real dirty secrets and truth.... and getting chastised for it here.


I realize now, that my enabling you to post junk science and things that are the opposite of the truth about COVID all Summer has allowed you a false sense of confidence instead of you actually opening your mind and learning, when it was corrected with authentic science. You did finally stop insisting that it changed your DNA but still would not concede that it isn't gene therapy. On the rest of the stuff............OMG!  All the real data and graphs/charts, science, evidence, studies did not come from thousands of people, doctors and scientists conspiring to trick people into believing what your sources a big cover up. 

But I realize now it was because this site has many far right readers that go to the same links/sources that you do for their information(note the hundreds of posts from people here after the elections,  that believed Biden stole the election. 

You were playing to your audience that believes the same, totally wrong things that you do. Instead of learning about science, you reinforced scientific ignorance and the stealing of peoples intelligence for the political agenda.

But in this case, it's turned into a deadly disaster. People around the country are dying because they didn't get vaccinated. If you are reading this and disagree, then you are going to the wrong places to get honest/authentic information. 

Again, I apologize to the forum for allowing Gunter to take advantage of our friendship, and the respect and belief in him and my commitment to never censor anything here. 

His toxic posting this Summer of anti  COVID vaccine dis/mis information, poisoning like thinking brains is exactly one of the best demonstrations for why censoring of dangerous material is justified in so many situations. 

He's obviously convinced of all these delusional belief's, most of which I repeatedly obliterated with facts, data and science, so it should have been my job to step moderator, to stop the extreme extent that he pushed it into. In retrospect, I should have done that 2 months ago. 

If there ever was the quintessential example of why people with dangerous messages, obsessed with trying to impose their wrong position/message on to others..........this was it. Not 10 posts or even 100 posts about least 200 posts, just this Summer to convince people of a message that is now killing thousands of people. 

I will copy a few private emails that I sent Gunter earlier this Summer below to provide additional perspective.


We live in a wonderful world that's loaded with authentic information for those that can recognize it and we can always learn from mistakes, including bad judgment because we let people that didn't know better take advantage of a situation.

 I will always be proud to see the good in everybody and Gunter is a wonderful, wonderful  person with a big heart that has just lost his way on this because of trusting really bad information from some really bad sources.

I come away with a new appreciation of that and hundreds of hours of education and knowledge from the, almost daily fact checking that was required to keep up with and debunk  Gunter Science" here this Summer.

Thanks for that Gunter!

This is the 3rd time this Summer that you got upset and quit and you even  apologized one time and told us you would not do that anymore. 

You are always welcome here. You have made massive contributions thru the years and I thank you for that. However, I can't control your thoughts and actions, other than to learn to be a better moderator and not allow this abuse to happen again.  Again, I'm sorry for letting you get so out of control and I needed to do a much better job in reigning you in.

Instead I gave you more attention each time, which actually backfired and  reinforced you to defend your Gunter Junk Science with even more tenacity. 

My fault man. 


By metmike - Aug. 28, 2021, 7:41 p.m.
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A few Emails with Gunter:


Thu 7/29/2021 2:13 PM

"Hi Gunter,

I apologize for briefly stating that you were acting childish on the forum yesterday.

I took that comment down right away.

I totally appreciate that you are a very smart man and have been a great contributor and friend for a long time. People like you make the world a better place and I'm with you on most of your ideaology's and especially with the class and grace that you almost always display while communicating on the forum.

However, this is a good time to bring up something.

I've been debating contacting you in private, concerned about the mental health elements,   related to  your neurotic compulsion to post things that are really bad science, then completely ignore or  spin corrections or explanations rooted in rock solid science into some very absurd interpretations based totally on faith, which requires your brain to be anti objective and to look only with the tunnel vision version that you are completely convinced of.

It would be one thing for this to happen a few times but it's been a neurotic, compulsive behavior.

I am not referring to the affect on the forum. I am always happy to expose and bust junk science vs censoring it. I learn a great deal, just as others do in the process.

I am MUCH more concerned with the negative frame of mind and dwelling on this is causing to you. Please don't brush off my concerns.

I don't think for a moment that you can't handle anything that comes your way but this realm is taking a toll on your credibility and personal relationships...............similar to how TDS affected people that hated Trump.

For people with TDS, they let their feelings for Trump, trump more important things in their lives. It wrecked alot of personal relationships.

I feel strongly that the extreme nature of your one sided, never budging anti COVID vax positions(you claim that you are not really anti vax and this vaccine is not really a vaccine) are rooted with a very similar frame of mind but applied to a different realm.

I've known you for years now and the manner that you communicate about this is totally different than the way that you used to be.

Trying to understand where posters are coming from is what I've been doing for  a living for over 3 years now.  I am not saying that I know everything but I've become an elite fact checker and learned to see the big well as all the pieces of the puzzle(including frame of minds) that go into the puzzle in a way that is 2nd to nobody and often can see many elements about people, that they can't see themselves.

Believe me when I say that this is almost entirely related to wanting the best for my friend Gunter.

You will note that I never once told you to stop posting a certain way or threatened any sort of actions or even suggested anything more than to please read the messages, including responses to your questions and the analysis of what you are doing and open your mind to receive them.

I also realize the likelihood of communication like this of backfiring.....but will take a chance that it won't.

In most situations, if you say to somebody, something like: "hey, you need to be more open minded"  it causes them to be offended/defensive, then they defend their position even more.

Your friend,



In addition, I sent Gunter a copy of several contacts to me from readers that were complaining, that I won't copy here. They were NOT all liberals. 



Thu 7/29/2021 7:43 PM

"Wow, I didn’t expect such a letter.  At first I thought it was a letter barring me from the forum.

You do not need to apologize.  I need to apologize to you!!!!   You are absolutely correct. My behavior in this thread was unacceptable.

I appreciate you worrying about my mental state… but I am fine. The problem is that we have 2 different views of the vaxx.  I know where you are coming from.

Please let me explain my views.

I am not an anti-vaxxer. For example, right before the pandemic, I had a pneumonia shot which should keep me protected for life, and a flu shot.

If there was a Covid vaccine (in the traditional sense), I would have used my age to get first in line early this year.

However, I am definitely anti-DNA therapy (the mRNA vaccines).  This view was shaped by listening to top experts in their field (a scientist who has worked on mRNA for 30 years, the CEO of a vaccine company, an insider from Pfizer, the inventor of the mRNA vaccine (!!!), and quite a few virologists, and many more.

And they are all concerned about what we will see in 2-3 years.

In addition to that, there is obviously a concerted effort made to prevent the public from hearing much about very, very serious negative effects of the vaxx that are happening right now. The proof of this comment is that, just this week, Pres. Biden asked Facebook to censor negative vaxx comments.

Censorship is the rule of the day.

I am sure, the public has no idea of the bad things that have happened to people right after the vaxx. I am sure, most think it’s a sore arm, and maybe a bad feeling the next day.

However, there is a long list of very serious side effects (paralysis, brain surgery, unable to speak, blood clots, strokes, heart attacks, 1200 cases of heart inflammation, etc etc) as well  as a large number of deaths.  Some of the side effects are quite scary.  Some of it I would hate to even mention on the forum, because it would put the vaxxed people into a state of fear… and that would not be good.

For me, at my age, it’s the question… can I survive the side effects of the vaxx???  and what are the odds of catching the covid and dying from it?

Either way… we obviously have opposing views on this subject…. but this does not excuse my recent behavior. Things can be disagreed upon in a civil way."

I apologize again. And I appreciate your friendship.

Best regards



Thu 7/30/2021 12:15 PM

"Thanks Gunter,

There is almost no way that I could ever ban you from MarketForum because I know what's in your heart.

As moderator, I MUST be held to the highest standard..........higher than any individual poster there.

At least that's what I think is what the best moderator should do.

You are in a totally different class than the likes of vandenplas, mojo, wxdavid and a few others. Nothing personal against them and I gave all of them many, many warnings and assistance in trying to keep them on but they just were not nice people and were not capable of acting nice or respecting others.

I've always felt that those that are the hardest to love.........are often the ones that need love the most. But when running a forum trying to make the world a better place and setting good examples.....we just couldn't have posters shitting on other posters.

It was actually breaking my heart, like the loss of a good friend for our discussions to turn so toxic, Gunter.

I do value friendships and the value of every human being. You are one of the best.

If it were any other topic or any other place, I would have long ago let it go because the damage is not worth the battle.

This is one of the rare exceptions.

I know with absolute, positive confidence that people not getting vaccinated is a big part of why COVID is making a big comeback here.   It's not just a matter of us disagreeing on something. You may not agree with that but in clear conscience and as a scientist and moderator of a forum that has at least hundreds of readers every day, I am compelled ethically to send out a clear message which helps people, not hurts people or even kills people.

I know that you disagree with the science but I have to do the right thing.

I'm always looking forward to making adjustments to the science to enhance what we know and you can hopefully be a part of that but at the end of the day, TODAY, the message has to be one that encourages people to do what will safe lives.....get vaccinated.

I am not being stubborn to show that I'm right as most people do in arguments. I am doing what I know is the right thing.

Regardless, I feel better to know that our friendship continues, which I value a great deal personally.


By metmike - Aug. 29, 2021, 1:15 p.m.
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Wed 8/25/2021 12:40 PM


                Re: Escape from Afghanistan.. today's headlines            

                                  By metmike - Aug. 25, 2021, 1:38 p.m(EDT)       

                   Thanks Gunter!

Everything you said is very true. Great post!




Wed 8/25/2021 1:38 PM

Thank you

By metmike - Aug. 29, 2021, 2:09 p.m.
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We need to keep Gunter's post at the top here for the next several days, so that it gets all the attention that he wants it to get.

By TimNew - Aug. 29, 2021, 9:13 p.m.
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All from the perspective of a moderator, an independent, objective scientist of 37 years that has become an elite fact checker and very knowledgeable about medicine and COVID......who's life is devoted to practicing the scientific method and who's existence here, for no pay is mainly to enlighten people's minds and make the world a better place.

Honestly MM.  Do you also leap tall buildings in a single bound?

I'm speaking as a concerned friend here.     Read that statement slowly,  step back,  take a deep breath or two, and imagine how someone would read it,  even if they agreed with every word you've ever said.

There might be a slight chance that you are not who you appear to think you are.

By metmike - Aug. 30, 2021, 12:14 a.m.
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"I'm speaking as a concerned friend here.     Read that statement slowly,  step back,  take a deep breath or two, and imagine how someone would read it,  even if they agreed with every word you've ever said.

There might be a slight chance that you are not who you appear to think you are."

metmike: Tell us then concerned friend, Tim just who do YOU think that I am?

To help you answer that question, here’s my mission statement that I posted when I signed on to this non paying job over 3 years ago.

About MarketForum

The current Moderator, metmike(Mike Maguire) has been an operational meteorologist since 1982 and trading commodities influenced by the weather since 1992. From 1982-1993, he was chief meteorologist for WEHT in Evansville Indiana. During the past 20 years, he has become an authority on climate science:


Mike lives with his wonderful wife, Debbie in Evansville Indiana. He has 3 children and 3 grandchildren. He has been the chess coach for Scott Elementary, Oakhill Elementary, McCuthchanville Elementary, North Junior High and North High School since 1995. Coaching 3,500 K-12 students during that time as well as running the biggest chess tournament in the southern half of Indiana each year.

Mike has also spent much volunteer time with Easter Seals, Santa Clothes Club, The Rescue Mission, Youth soccer, basketball and baseball(coach, commissioner and treasurer) and taught religious education for 15 years. Also a practicing environmentalist and member of Operation City Beautiful, then Keep Evansville Beautiful.

Meet Mike and his Dad, Frank Maguire here:

This is what Mike did previous to trading commodities:


Objectives/Mission:Develop the minds and character of our youth thru the game of chess. Enlighten all ages about the current climate optimum, featuring the best weather and climate in the last 1,000 years(and massive benefits of increasing CO2) using data and authentic science to battle the misinformation about the completely fake climate crisis.....AND OTHER MAJOR DISINFORMATION CAMPAIGNS.  Encourage expression of RESPECTFUL thoughts from those that disagree and receive them with an open mind/heart, hoping to learn from others. Stress and demonstrate love and tolerance, while showing the damaging affects of hatred to peoples lives. Reveal the truth...........expose lies, especially in the political realm(of both sides), which sadly includes most climate science today, while always practicing the scientific method.

By metmike - Aug. 30, 2021, 12:39 a.m.
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After reading the statement over, nice and slooooow as you advised, I found a mistake.

It's actually not 37 years as an independent, objective scientist. I corrected that to 39 years(and 7 months)....going back to February 1982 in Cincinnati, OH working for "Weather Scene" at WLWT-TV. 

Do you believe that? Did I count right? 

I got my Atmospheric Science degree from the engineering school at the University of MIchigan in July 1981. Do you believe that?

I studied actuarial science for 2 years at the University of Detroit prior to that. Believe it?

I worked for 2 years, while going to school at U of M as a dietary supervisor  at the University of Michigan hospital in 1980/81.  Is that true?

Are the standards that I set for myself too high, in your opinion?

Am I wasting my time here trying to accomplish those objectives?

By TimNew - Aug. 30, 2021, 6:48 a.m.
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So, you see yourself as an elite fact checker, educating your inferiors while making the world a better place.

Thats very noble MM.  Carry on.

By metmike - Aug. 30, 2021, 7:35 a.m.
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"So, you see yourself as an elite fact checker, educating your inferiors while making the world a better place."

You totally made up the "educating your inferiors" part to try to MIS characterize me as the exact opposite of the way that I am. 

Since you've been reading my posts for 3 years, you should know that I consider ALL people to have equal value, regardless of nationality, political/religious affiliation, education and mentality. I've spent the last 30 years humbly helping the less fortunate........handicapped, poor,  developing young people's mind and recently what I would call in today's society, assisting the close minded/arrogant and  politically dysfunctional. 

As I stated to Gunter in a personal email a month ago and copied above:

"I've always felt that those that are the hardest to love.........are often the ones that need love the most. But when running a forum trying to make the world a better place and setting good examples.....we just couldn't have posters shitting on other posters.

It was actually breaking my heart, like the loss of a good friend for our discussions to turn so toxic, Gunter.

I do value friendships and the value of every human being. You are one of the best."

I've encouraged people that disagree with me to post and in fact, those have always been my favorite posts from the beginning, as it allows me to either learn something or teach others something. Gunter, with 200 posts on mostly junk science had no intention of learning but was obsessed, like a troll playing to a crowd of his peers.  

I accept the blame for allowing this abuse of the forum. 

As I've stated in the past, I can present some great messages and truths here and try to set a good example and always be transparent, objective and honest but I can't make anybody do anything if they don't want to. Especially adults set in their ways.

Children are much easier to work with actually. They come to school with an open mind, with an objective of learning new things.

Poor and disadvantaged people too are usually very open to receiving assistance with their problems. 

The tough nuts to crack are those with the close minds that just keep recirculating what they think they know in their brains and won't let anything new in. ............and go to the same sites that tell them the news they want to hear in order to reinforce the same stuff.

By metmike - Aug. 30, 2021, 7:53 a.m.
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Since you apparently are not getting it...attacking my character is not going well for you.

You will note that I’m refraining from attacking you back.

Why not just try to  cooperate here....please?

You are only providing an example to readers of how “not to treat other people”. Is that your objective??

Love and tolerance leaves a person with a wonderful feeling of fulfillment.

Emotions dominating in the world today, like hatred  anger,  intolerance, judgmental, prejudice and arrogance that political sites sell are what’s dividing and destroying our country.

And I still have a long way to go but am trying my best here and made some progress personally and just want to share it.

Yeah, really!

By TimNew - Aug. 30, 2021, 2:05 p.m.
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MM,  I am not attacking your character.   I am using your words.   You condisider yourself an "Elite Fact Checker",  correct?   How many people do you place in this "Elite" Category?  Anyone not in the elite category is inferior by definition.  You may not chose that word,  but that's the direct meaning.

This is  a silly debate and I won't continue.  I just wanted to point out the impression I was getting from you.

By metmike - Aug. 30, 2021, 2:19 p.m.
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"This is  a silly debate and I won't continue."

We can both agree 100% with that one Tim!

I'm looking forward to the next discussion on something different!

By GunterK - Aug. 30, 2021, 2:53 p.m.
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No, metmike, I don’t have the need to see my post on top. You do a great job yourself. I am getting a bit tired posting about things that I believe people should know, and then being insulted.

Mr. Science, Dr Fauci, has made it quite clear… only he has a grip on “science”, anyone who has different opinions is an idiot, posting “dangerous misinformation” In the past, I have posted a lot of vaxx related info… issues that were not mentioned by the Dr Fauci PR machine. Almost everything I have posted was immediately classified as “cr*p*, debunked by so-called “authentic science”. This reminded me a bit of Dr Fauci.…, actually, you went one step further… you questioned my mental health!!!

So I decided to close out these futile discussions with one more post…intended to explain why I posted… to share, not to irritate.  And now I am being called “delusional”

Yet, when I re-read my original post above, I couldn’t find much delusional stuff in it.

I wrote about that document that ordered doctors to count every death as a “Covid Fatality  That’s a FACT

I wrote about how Dr Fauci and his media-empire made possibly life-saving medication disappear from sight.That’s a FACT

I then wrote about the huge effort that has been made to eliminate posts that would shed a negative light on the vaxx….and that even the POTUS got involved in the suppression of information.That’s a FACT .

I made it quite clear that I am not qualified to have any personal opinions about this subject… I am only repeating what other experts say.That’s a FACT

I stated that some of those opposing experts are simple family doctors, while others are highly qualified scientists, who know more than any one of us here on this forum.That’s a FACT

I stated that some of these scientists are concerned about the severe side-effects(including deaths) the vaxx has caused. And that’s a FACT, even though the public may not be aware of it, because of the information suppression.

Other scientists warn us about possible long-term side-effects. How can anyone call such warnings “B.S”., when we haven’t seen the “long-term” yet??? That’s illogical.

Most of their comments are concerns, not solid predictions. Neither they, nor Mr. Science himself have the correct answer… we all will know in a few years. Anyone downplaying this situation by comparing it with other vaccine experiments, is off base, because the mRNA jab is something different from the traditional vaccine.

Then I questioned the frequent use of the term “science”. I have been involved in “science” for many years in my previous profession and have worked with a multitude of tests.. I have never seen such a sloppy, ambiguous test as the PCR test, the “gold standard of Covid testing”.

How can anyone take these numbers as “scientific data”??? I did admit that these numbers can give us a general trend, as long as they are used uniformly throughout the country, and without bias towards unvaccinated people.That’s a FACT

Then I pointed out the Delta is a new enemy, and old observations don’t apply anymore. I pointed out that the Delta efficacy is down to 39%.That’s a FACT

I am fully aware that right now, the Delta is causing trouble…I am also aware that the “data” we are shown points at unvaxxed people…. On the other hand, I am also aware that at other locations the Delta hits the vaxxed people more than the unvaxxed people. That’s a FACT also

But then, as you once wrote…outbreaks come and subside at different times in different locations.Using your thinking, we can then assume that this current outbreak will also subside at some time in the future, on its own (of course, they will credit the vaxx with that).


And now I am asking my own questions, rather than quoting experts in this field…..

Why are these other experts in their fields vilified for having their own opinions? They caution us about certain aspects of the vaxx, based on their extensive knowledge, and they are immediately labelled as “quacks”, and now they are also being called “nefarious”… for expressing a concern???

Why can’t our government agencies be honest with the People? Why are they so desperately hiding the negative side of this vaxx? the point of having even the POTUS engage in the suppression campaign?

Why not tell the truth to the People? Why is every opinion that opposes Dr Fauci’s opinion labelled as “dangerous misinformation” and immediately removed from internet sites?

This is not how medical issues are supposed to be handled in the USA.

Why did the FDA rush to approve the vaxx,when they normally give their blessing only after several years of use of a new medication?

Why is there no official inquiry into the 1000s of healthy people who died immediately after being vaxxed? This is unprofessional behavior, the likes of which I have never seen before. What are they afraid of?

There must be a motive, there must be an agenda, other than fighting a virus…

Well, I guess, we are lucky… if this was North Korea, all those scientists (and myself) would have been executed for opposing the Dear Leader. We have to be glad that we are only being insulted….(so far)

By mcfarm - Aug. 30, 2021, 3:38 p.m.
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Hey Gunter we have some real winners here running our covid circus. Our governor has closed down over a million businesses and put a million or so out work onto the gov rolls. He makes a big speech last winter and threatened all of us peons with another lock down and more useless mask mandates, then the nest day went down to his cabin in the woods and was caught without  mask for days. just last our virus czar Ms Box mad this speech and warned we better all mask up because the virus is back and is killing and filling hospitals if we don't. Well we found her at a wedding 2 days later just drinking and dancing and hugging til all hours of the night all with no mask the entire time. This is not to mention out mask czar is making over 200000 dollars doing this job and the strange part is she is a gynecologist, not a virus type at all. Does that make you wonder how she gout her job? It should, because it was nothing buy politics. Not quality, no vetting, not credentials but boy did she have diversity!!!!!! 

Pretty simple if the mask is so important {and its not} isn;t it important for all or just the low lifes they threaten and if they are to be taken seriously take care of the mess at the boarder. If this things are not done then go away and let us live out lives.

By metmike - Aug. 30, 2021, 3:55 p.m.
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Welcome back Gunter!

Stick around for awhile and please try to post on anything different than what you have neurotically obsessed over all Summer long. 

You had tremendous credibility when you did that! I know that Gunter is still in there inside you. 

Why not stick with an element where you helped to enlighten people and made solid points and positive contributions instead of what you're obsessed with here?

What happened to that Gunter?

I know that he's still in there. I really do. 

I've already covered and busted those exact same arguments tons of times here Gunter and will no longer enable you and give you attention for junk, made up science that you are getting from some really bad sources. 

By metmike - Aug. 30, 2021, 6:27 p.m.
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                Red states still getting killed(literally)            

                            Started by metmike - Aug. 30, 2021, 4:48 p.m.    

Are the people pushing this junk science on you guys actually trying to kill you off?

Does the republican party have some sort of death wish?

No, they are just using you. Trying to get you angry by making shisst up about COVID, the vaccine, Trumps loss in the election and blaming it on THEM....Fauci, the CDC, the government, Biden, the libs, THE MSM. They are all out there to get you........right? Steal your freedoms, take away your rights. Make you do things.

Ironically, the ones making you afraid of this........are actually completely controlling you and your thinking!

Selling their products, selling their dishonest agenda. For ratings or internet traffic. You have been  brainwashed.

You're being used and should be outraged at their stealing your intelligence and KILLING you because of it.......literally.

Let's get the republican party back on track as a party that represents truth, science, trust,  integrity and the best interest of America.

People dying of COVID, especially republicans is NOT in the best interest of America, nor is it good for having less restrictions from COVID..........the complete opposite.

Being vaccinated WOULD result in less COVID, less shut downs, less masks......etc. More freedoms. More health, more of  good things and less of bad things. Why is this not completely obvious?

Take your brains back from these political cruds and exercise your freedom to use good judgment and apply critical thinking.

Watching and listening to them all day has created a cult like thinking, with some of the more powerful  high priests raking in millions in profits. Tens of millions of like minded people repeating the same really bad science and thoughts and messages to themselves and going to the wrong places for information on this topic is the recipe for failure..........and death in many cases. 

Why isn't this blatantly, crystal clear and obvious???