2nd study says natural immunity may be better than vaccines
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Started by cutworm - Aug. 31, 2021, 4:38 p.m.

Aug 31fox news

A new study says natural immunity may be better than vaccines (yahoo.com)   *

Aug 27 Bloomburg

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

A new study says natural immunity may be better than vaccines (yahoo.com)

* sorry about the large lettering cannot figure out how make it smaller


By metmike - Aug. 31, 2021, 5:11 p.m.
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Thanks cutworm,

What it says is that people who have been infected by COVID, should only get 1 COVID shot, instead of the 2 shot regimen for those not infected previously. Then they have even better protection, by an even wider margin than those that only got the shots. I noted that FOX failed to communicate that truth. 

Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine—but vaccination remains vital 

Israelis who had an infection were more protected against the Delta coronavirus variant than those who had an already highly effective COVID-19 vaccine


"The researchers also found that people who had SARS-CoV-2 previously and received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine were more highly protected against reinfection than those who once had the virus and were still unvaccinated. The new work could inform discussion of whether previously infected people need to receive both doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine or the similar mRNA vaccine from Moderna. Vaccine mandates don’t necessarily exempt those who had a SARS-CoV-2 infection already and the current U.S. recommendation is that they be fully vaccinated, which means two mRNA doses or one of the Johnson & Johnson adenovirus-based vaccine. Yet one mRNA dose might be enough, some scientists argue. And other countries including Germany, France, Italy, and Israel administer just one vaccine dose to previously infected people."

metmike: My son Quinn had a very bad case of COVID late last year and only got 1 shot, which is the smartest thing to do. 

Regardless, people should be seeking out the maximum protection that science can provide them with. We know that the vaccines immunity starts wearing off at several months......so the need for a booster/3rd shot. I'll be first in line for mine. 

Natural immunity may be greater and we don't know what the time frame is for it to wear off. My son Quinn was the sickest of his life, at 32 when he got COVID. Most people with severe illness or near death from having the disease, don't need to have their arms twisted to make the choice of maximizing their protection.

It's the ones that never had COVID and go to bad information sites that make them think the vaccinations don't work and have high risk side affects.

As a producer, if you had the choice of a type of a drought and disease resistant corn seed that studies showed yielded 15 bpa more than another kind, for a couple pennies more, would you say "Naw, I'm happy with the lower yields, they're still better than 20 years ago.... I don't need the extra corn at harvest.

By metmike - Aug. 31, 2021, 5:49 p.m.
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Here is the other thing.

It shows natural immunity often provides better immunity than the vaccine does. But it depends on how bad the disease was and there is still tremendous uncertainty with other studies not agreeing. That's the problem. Everybody gets the same dose of vaccine.  The amount to maximize protection.  When you get COVID,  the disease, a mild version vs severe version will give a different level of protection for no brainer reasons.

It says that people who got infected should only get 1 shot, instead of 2 shots. In other words, STILL get vaccinated, even if you had the disease(like Quinn did after he did the research himself)

Then, they have the BEST protection of all, which is what we all want.

So the authentic science is:

  1. People that never got COVID should get 2 shots.
  2. Those same people will need booster shots after 6 months because the protection wanes.........I'm going to be first in line for mine
  3. People that had COVID have good natural protection but not the best.  The best protection comes when they also get a vaccine, X months after having COVID
  4. Nobody should NOT get vaccinated for COVID ever unless they have a unique medical condition(allergic to the ingredients in the vaccine) or its a younger child. 2 shots for most..........1 shot for the small number of people that had COVID. 
By metmike - Aug. 31, 2021, 6:09 p.m.
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Those who should not get vaccinated are those that have had a severe reaction in the past because they are allergic to the ingredients.

Who should/shouldn’t get a COVID-19 vaccine?


Information for Special Populations and the COVID-19 vaccine


Can people with allergies get the COVID-19 vaccine? Yes, in most cases with 2 exceptions:

  1. People with a severe allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) to any component of either an mRNA vaccine or the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine should NOT receive that vaccine. Many people will be safely able to receive an alternate vaccine. An allergic reaction is considered severe when it is classified by a healthcare provider as an anaphylactic reaction or a person needs to be treated with epinephrine or EpiPen© or if the person must go to the hospital.

If You Are Allergic to Polyethylene Glycol (PEG) or Polysorbate

  • PEG and polysorbate are closely related to each other. PEG is an ingredient in the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna), and polysorbate is an ingredient in the Johnson & Johnson (J&J)/Janssen vaccine. If you are allergic to PEG, you should not get an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine. Ask your doctor if you can get the J&J/Janssen vaccine.
  • If you are allergic to polysorbate, you should not get the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine. Ask your doctor if you can get an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine.

2.  People with a severe allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) to any vaccine or injectable (intramuscular or intravenous) medication should consult with their health provider to assess risk prior to receiving the COVID-19 vaccine.

More information about allergies and the COVID-19 vaccines can be found on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention website. 

By 7475 - Aug. 31, 2021, 8:18 p.m.
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  2 shot vaccination then contracting Covid

 What kind of protection do you suppose that group would have?

By madmechanic - Aug. 31, 2021, 9:10 p.m.
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7475 - That is a really interesting question as it is a not un-heard of scenario that many have actually gone through.

Another scenario that I wonder about based on this post are those that had COVID and then got 2 shots, like my wife. In her case, she tested positive for COVID, had a fever for 5 days, basically slept for 4 days straight and then recovered pretty quickly with no lingering health issues that we know of. However, before she was allowed to return to work, she had to complete a 2 shot vaccine regimen. Ironically she got COVID right at the end of 2020, within weeks of the vaccine becoming available and her work mandating it for all employees.

I also noticed that she had little reaction to the second shot where most of us feel pretty ill the day after the 2nd dose. (I know I did)

My guess would be (and this is purely a guess) that she has pretty good overall protection. She is healthy, no prexisting health conditions, she just turned 40 this year and with having natural immunity plus a 2 dose vaccine, I should think that she has very good protection.

By metmike - Aug. 31, 2021, 11:43 p.m.
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Great point madmechanic!

Still plenty of uncertainty on whether a 2nd shot will do any good for those previously infected. Maybe if the infection was minor. If it were me with a minor infection, I'd go for 2 jabs. Severe infection, just 1. 

But for sure, the previously infected should get at least one jab, since the risk of any problems is so tiny and doesn't seem to go up because of an extra shot. 

Is one vaccine dose enough if you’ve had COVID? What the science says


                    Research shows that a previous coronavirus infection plus one dose of vaccine provides powerful protection — but concerns linger.                


By cutworm - Sept. 1, 2021, 8:34 a.m.
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A very close friend of mine who is overweight had the virous in January 2021. He got the RNA shot in late march and April. with in 2 days he was in the emergence ward. He has had 4 spinal taps. Is taking the max dose of Gabapentin. The Dr's don't know what do with him. His primary says it was due to the shot.

Another resident of this county had a tumor appear 2 weeks after receiving the 2nd shot, at the location of the shot.. The tumor has been removed and sent off .

One should note that these are anecdotal data.

By cutworm - Sept. 1, 2021, 8:55 a.m.
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Mike    "As a producer, if you had the choice of a type of a drought and disease resistant corn seed that studies showed yielded 15 bpa more than another kind, for a couple pennies more, would you say "Naw, I'm happy with the lower yields, they're still better than 20 years ago.... I don't need the extra corn at harvest."

Cutworm: As a producer , I should, 1 look to see if the "science" was plausible, does it make sense. Ask Questions. Be careful and open minded 2  do some strip test to confirm the results on my farm. Do not change the whole farm  without a test plot for at least one year

Critical Thinking, sorting out facts from fiction - MarketForum

By cutworm - Sept. 1, 2021, 9:17 a.m.
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Let me state my position at this time. I am not anti vaccination. RNA vaccination is a different type of vaccination than the older types ie. MMR . Keeping an open mind about RNA as no one has long term info. I do think it is a tool to be used. I do not think I would use RNA vaccines IF I already had covid


By metmike - Sept. 1, 2021, 12:17 p.m.
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Thanks cutworm,

So you would wait 2-3 years, after almost all the other producers were reaping +15 bushel/acre benefits based on the studies and science(which you would not believe) because an opposing seed company, the one that you get your seed information from, told you not to believe the science or results from the other guys. You and only the farmers that got their information from your seed company source would stay with them. 

With corn seed............you too smart and know better as a producer. That wouldn't happen.

But with the scary sounding RNA vaccines, people have no idea how they work, they are brand new and you are not a virologist.  It's the perfect environment for outlying sources to scare people with unscientific, speculative scenario's.

This is how the vaccine works


This is what it's doing to people going to the same dis/misinformation sites that you go to

                Red states still getting killed(literally)            


                Started by metmike - Aug. 30, 2021, 4:48 p.m.            


What's insane about this is, if you want to see what causes long term damage...............look at COVID, the disease!

                COVID long term damage            

                            15 responses |          

                Started by metmike - Aug. 30, 2021, 12:34 p.m.            


Ignoring all the relevant factors based on authentic science is critical thinking????

That's actually why I used the corn seed analogy to connect to you.  

You are letting your politically biased sources tell you what to think. That's totally it. That's why people in the red states are getting very sick and dying at a greater rate than the blue states, including the big cities(that died at a greater rate before the vaccine).

I would ordinarily just shrug my shoulders and let it go but thousands of people are dying because they have this view. Really. 

By metmike - Sept. 1, 2021, 12:35 p.m.
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You will believe the RNA vaccines are safe...............when your sources tell you that they are safe.

I know that you can't be using the objective science, data, evidence and facts, understanding how this particular vaccine works, after over 2 billion people have been vaccinated, after the FDA approved an RNA vaccine(which was the previous bad narrative to scare people)......when there is no legit evidence that this could do anything to your genes or will somehow, cause a scary unknown side affect, years from now and it is, without question,  saving millions of lives.

Because that's what I'm looking at as an independent scientist of 39 years.

Do you remember when GMO products hit the scene over 2 decades ago?

I'm sure you're familiar with the term "Frankenfood".

What's insane, is that the G in GMO is actually for GENETICALLY Modified organisms.

The RNA vaccines DO NOT modify or change your genes or DNA. 

Genetic Literacy Project

Frankenfoods? A ‘terrible word’ that could describe more foods than you might realize


Let's ask this. How many of your sources are not politically right biased sources? Why would this be a totally right vs left issue, when it's science?

Like the source above is committed to.........let's apply your critical thinking using authentic SCIENCE not ideology/politics..or its NOT critical thinking. 

By mcfarm - Sept. 1, 2021, 2:58 p.m.
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so is it collusion or coercion when big gov orders big business to force its employees to get the shot? And where is a businesses protection when the WH with all the power and the many ways they can force a small business to cooperate or else we shut your doors?

By metmike - Sept. 2, 2021, 3:19 a.m.
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"Another resident of this county had a tumor appear 2 weeks after receiving the 2nd shot, at the location of the shot.. The tumor has been removed and sent off ."


What has happened to your fact checking and critical thinking skills?

You obviously have no idea how this RNA vaccine works or even how tumors work. What you stated is impossible.

This is how the vaccine works


It does NOT affect or alter DNA, zero, nadda no affect on genes. It cannot cause tumors. No chance.

Fact Check: 7 Persistent Myths about COVID-19 Vaccines


Myth: The mRNA vaccines change your DNA and could cause cancer.


Truth: None of the vaccines interact with or alter your DNA in any way, and therefore cannot cause cancer.

Messenger RNA (mRNA) is not the same as DNA and cannot be combined with DNA to change your genetic code. Here’s now mRNA vaccines actually work:

"The mRNA vaccines use a tiny piece of the coronavirus’ genetic code to teach your immune system how to make a protein that will trigger an immune response if you get infected. The mRNA is fragile, so after it delivers the instructions to your cells, it breaks down and disappears from the body (in about 72 hours). The mRNA never even goes into the nucleus of the cell — the part that contains your DNA.

Therefore, there is no truth to the myth that somehow the mRNA vaccine could inactivate the genes that suppress tumors."


Let me help educate you on how long it takes for tumors to grow and finally be detected. Stating that a tumor appeared in 2 weeks, even if the vaccine could cause a tumor tells us you don't understand medicine or cancer:

Science Surgery: ‘How quickly do tumours develop?’


How Long Have I Had My Cancer, Doctor?



You posted a link about critical thinking........while practicing ANTI critical thinking. What am I missing here. Please describe in words why you think that you are practicing critical thinking by not fact checking  bad science because its coming from your favorite political idealogy  sites, while refusing to believe authentic science because its coming from sources that have a different political ideology than you, as well as sources like me that don't have a political ideology attached to the science?

Thanks in advance


By metmike - Sept. 2, 2021, 3:55 a.m.
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Great point by you too John.

Somebody like that would likely have one heck of a lot of protection.

I wonder how many people have been vaccinated and had COVID twice?

By metmike - Sept. 2, 2021, 4:10 a.m.
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Still conflicting science on what provides better immunity..............getting COVID or getting vaccinated.

However, one carries mainly the risk of some minor side affects the next day. The other one has killed over half a million people, the ones that didn't die, got natural immunity. 

People who've had COVID, twice as likely to get reinfected than those who get vaccinated, CDC says

Residents infected with COVID in 2020 experienced a reinfection between May and June of 2021, same time Delta variant intensified.