Putin threatened Biden
20 responses | 0 likes
Started by metmike - Dec. 31, 2021, 11:04 a.m.

Putin threatened Biden with a complete collapse of US-Russia relations if he launches more sanctions over Ukraine

https://news.yahoo.com/putin-threatened-biden-complete-collapse-124544775.html


  • Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin spoke on Thursday as Russia appeared close to invading Ukraine.
  • Putin told Biden that sanctions over Ukraine could mean a total rupture in US-Russia relations.
  • Biden urged Putin to ease tensions but said the US would respond if Russia invades.

metmike: I'm strongly for the US to NOT be the global police of planet earth because the 200 countries on it, follow so many different ways to govern and apply ethical standards. 

Some of those countries violate our own ethical standards and ways of governing. If the world wants to use a body like the United Nations, that represents the world and uses combined forces/resources united to oppose injustice and put pressure on the countries that don't fall in line.........great.

However, the US is struggling with major problems of its own, especially the divisivess between its 2 parties. 

For us to be ADVISING other countries how to behave is ok but when we start lobbing threats and actions as an individual entity, the United States, then we risk a tremendous amount. 

Exactly what will the US do?  We can't fight Russia. Sending troops would be a complete disaster. Using sanctions might help(or it can backfire) but requires the rest of the world to be behind us and it would obliterate relations between the US and Russia if led by the US.

That might be ok for the right ethical reasons but the ethical reasons are even stronger in many other places right now. Afghanistan, China, North Korea, for example.

I think a president talking tough to Russia is just dangerous political theatre to make that president look good in today's age at the expense of making Putin look bad.

This is the recipe to ruin relations between the countries while not accomplishing anything.

Comments
By jmk - Dec. 31, 2021, 4:15 p.m.
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This would not be happening if Trump was still in office. But Putin senses weakness in Biden no other explanation. I fear this is just the tip of the iceberg. I know all of Trumps faults but I really think world leaders were afraid of him and what he might do which in my thinking  was a good thing. Biden is an appeaser just like Obama was. Really think Putin is banking on Biden doing nothing he has said he would do and the fact Putin knows Biden cant get the rest of the world to go with him.

By TimNew - Jan. 1, 2022, 8:48 a.m.
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Putin knows Biden cant get the rest of the world to go with him.

Of course not.    Biden has already let the world know that our allies can't trust us.

The left tries to convince that world leaders laughed at Trump, and perhaps sometimes they did,   but they knew they could count on him.


But...   Thank Gawd we no are no longer struggling under the yoke of mean tweets.  Things are so much better now..  As long as you only measure subjective inconsequential nonsense.

By metmike - Jan. 1, 2022, 2:50 p.m.
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Actually, it's the exact opposite of what you guys think with regards to the relationship and trust of the world in the 2 presidents....by an extremely wide margin.


America's global image under Biden skyrockets compared to Trump, survey finds

A median of 75 percent of respondents from 12 countries expressed confidence in Biden, compared with 17 percent for Trump in 2020.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/america-s-global-image-under-biden-skyrockets-compared-trump-survey-n1270401



From Forbes:

How The World’s Opinion Of America Has Changed From Trump To Biden

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/06/10/how-the-worlds-opinion-of-america-has-changed-from-trump-to-biden/?sh=419ee82f1dbd

Key Facts      

In 12 countries surveyed both this year and last, Pew found 75% of respondents expressed confidence in Biden, compared with 17% for Trump in 2020. 

       Some 62% of respondents said they now have a favorable view of the U.S., a number that was at 34% by the end of Trump’s tenure. 

       The favorable ratings stem from a more positive perception of Biden’s leadership abilities and his policies, the polling shows. 

By metmike - Jan. 1, 2022, 2:56 p.m.
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Trump got the lowest marks of all the worlds leaders........including China below.

How people around the world see the U.S. and Donald Trump in 10 charts

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/01/08/how-people-around-the-world-see-the-u-s-and-donald-trump-in-10-charts/

Confidence in Trump remains low internationally






metmike: I'm not at all addressing whether these policies were good for America and bad for the world or not.............which most of them were but instead, WHAT THE WORLD THOUGHT OF TRUMP because of these policies.

Trump was a nationalist focusing on what's good for America. The world didn't like that or trust him to act in the best interest of the world.........which is what this entire issue between Putin and Biden is all about.

Biden is going to bat for the people of Ukraine and representing global ethical standards. 

Acting as the global spokesperson and police to keep Russia in line. 

By TimNew - Jan. 1, 2022, 9:47 p.m.
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Bull as in Bull and Crap as in Crap.

The main objection to Trump was that he was not going to pay the bills that other contrires were supposed to pay.  That really pissed off the free loaders..  The vast majority of the billions we shipped overseas ends up in the pockets of assorted politicians, including/particularly Biden.  

But Biden has shown that he will abandon allies when it counts.  Trump did not.

Keep spewing the  MSM crap MM.   Some of us know better.,  

They were not after Trump.  They were after you.  Trump was just in the way. 

By the time you realize that,  it will be too late. 

By jmk - Jan. 1, 2022, 10:22 p.m.
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Mike your last chart points out my point. Of course the globalist disliked Trump ,wall ,climate change etc. Thats exactly what I was talking about he looked out for our country first on these things. I want my President to look out for us first. There was many things I didnt like about him but every thing on the last chart was what I did like about him, and if the rest of the world didnt like it to bad. Last time I looked I live in the USA.

By metmike - Jan. 2, 2022, 2:19 a.m.
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Tim stated: 

"Putin knows Biden cant get the rest of the world to go with him.

Of course not.    Biden has already let the world know that our allies can't trust us.

The left tries to convince that world leaders laughed at Trump, and perhaps sometimes they did,   but they knew they could count on him."


metmike responded with the actual facts/data, from several sources(based mostly on well respected Pew research),  including Forbes, a conservative source to prove that it was/is the exact opposite of the above by him:

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/79697/#79743

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/79697/#79744



Tim's response to the data: "Keep spewing the  MSM crap MM.   Some of us know better.,  

They were not after Trump.  They were after you.  Trump was just in the way. 

By the time you realize that,  it will be too late."


metmike: Tim, you resorted to your false narrative/rhetoric again........when you don't like the authentic data/facts, you say they can't be believed because they came from the MSM.....but it didn't. 

Then finish with a paranoid conclusion that they are after me but I'm just not sharp enough(like you) to realize it.

Actually Tim, I studied actuarial science for 2 years at the University of Detroit before transferring to U of Michigan to get my atmospheric science degree.

After weather/climate, I love analyzing data. Maybe you noticed that in several thousands of my posts.....maybe not.  I really love sharing authentic data with readers here.

Those sources at the above links were me sharing authentic data from legit sources(that were just reporting the data) about how all the other countries viewed Trump and now how they view Biden. No spinning or twisting.

Because you didn't like the authentic data, you refer to it as me spewing MSM crap.

I was just reporting the data/responses from the rest of the world on what they thought of Trump..........compared to what they think of Biden.

You brought it up Tim, not me. I only showed the authentic data to correct your wrong assumption/statement.

If you don't want to see that.........it's on you, man.

 All I can do is show the data and authentic facts/evidence.


https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77011/#79364

By metmike - Jan. 2, 2022, 2:33 a.m.
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Do you also consider Gallup to be MSM crap too Tim?

Again, data is data. No spin.  Let the data speak. 


Please show us some data/evidence/proof to back up your words, which are loaded with critism and claims but without any substance/proof that counts.  

  Global approval of U.S. leadership under Biden rebounds after Trump low, survey says

 



By mcfarm - Jan. 2, 2022, 7:16 a.m.
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I got a poll for you MM. Ask those same leaders who supposedly hold Biden in such regard just who they would rather be in the fox hole with when the bullets start flying. Pretty easy to spurt some answer to a poll immediately after the one guy in decades }trump}  calls all those leaders to account.

By the way MM this needs to be repeated daily here. Big government can only give you what they take from someone else. And here lately they have been shoveling really fast.

By TimNew - Jan. 2, 2022, 7:45 a.m.
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You can look at data all day and still draw incorrect conclusions MM.   The world leaders who had their hands in our pockets for decades like Biden better than Trump.     Golly gee,    what can that possibly mean?

As far as my "paranoia",  maybe I've just spent a little more time looking at history thatn you.    Based on previous conversations,   I'd say that's a certainty.

And I will bet you any sum you chose that Putin would never address Trump the way he has Biden.


By metmike - Jan. 2, 2022, 8:35 a.m.
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Changing the topic to big government, which is a domestic topic, doesn’t make the data and facts about foreign policies  and relationships with foreign countries/leaders suddenly go away....like you want it to

As stated dozens of times I’m just an objective, independent scientist that applies the scientific method to all politics too as moderator.

I do it as your friend, not an adversary or opponent or enemy....

..telling you what you need to hear/read not what you want to read. This isn’t another echo chamber that most people prefer for their news....where they all repeat the same one sided views  to each other, absent any scrutiny, vetting, critical thinking or fact checking.

If you want to apply the FOX/republican political spin to every topic here, then this moderator will provide the open minded/objective views always based on verifiable, authentic facts.

If you have counter facts based on authentic data that support your positions in the discussion, I encourage you to use those instead of the republican party rhetoric and changing the subject and blaming the MSM and insisting that I’m just not smart enough about history and politics to understand what’s really going on like you guys do.

If that’s the case, I’m here to learn too.

Please school me using what  the world understands as the universal teaching metric....authentic data and facts, instead of avoiding its  use/application so far in this discussion and just telling me that you know more than me.

Please share that knowledge, rather than just stating that you have it.

By metmike - Jan. 2, 2022, 9 a.m.
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Again, this is not about winning or losing.

This is not about defending one sided politics. 

Everybody always wins ....when they base their positions and understanding on objective facts and data....the indisputable non partisan evidence.

By metmike - Jan. 2, 2022, 12:33 p.m.
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                By jmk - Jan. 1, 2022, 10:22 p.m.                                                   

"Mike your last chart points out my point. Of course the globalist disliked Trump ,wall ,climate change etc. Thats exactly what I was talking about he looked out for our country first on these things. I want my President to look out for us first. There was many things I didnt like about him but every thing on the last chart was what I did like about him, and if the rest of the world didnt like it to bad. Last time I looked I live in the USA."

metmike: Agree 100% jmk!!

                By metmike - Jan. 1, 2022, 2:56 p.m.            

"Trump was a nationalist focusing on what's good for America. The world didn't like that or trust him to act in the best interest of the world.........which is what this entire issue between Putin and Biden is all about."

metmike: When we vote for president, we are voting for President of the United States.  Some people, especially progressives think that role should include leadership in the the global theater.

 But here's the problem that I have with that. The progressives are pushing hard for global socialism, led by the United Nations. The Climate Accord is entirely about this. The fake climate crisis(during the current climate optimum)  is entirely about this. If you want global socialism on some things(economics/energy), then you have to pursue it in ALL things.

You shouldn't get global socialism led by the UN..........and at the same time, the US acting as the world's police.......suffering the costs, casualties and consequences........like we did in Afghanistan.

I'm totally in support of Trump's position of anti intervention in world/global affairs with respect to the decades of disasters of our military policies in the Middle East as an example. 

Trillions spent, thousands of brave soldiers died and many over there hate our guts because of it.

Let........THE WORLD take responsibility for THE WORLD's military problems. 

However, I am greatly for the US increasing it's HUMANITARIAN aid/assistance. As a wealthy country with MUCH more than we need, it's an obligation as human beings to help people that have almost nothing...........because they had the very bad luck to be born where they live and we got lucky to be born in the US!


What every American should know about US foreign aid

https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/votervital/what-every-american-should-know-about-us-foreign-aid/


By metmike - Jan. 2, 2022, 12:47 p.m.
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More on these extremely important topic......and the good news:

What every American should know about US foreign aid

https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/votervital/what-every-american-should-know-about-us-foreign-aid/

  • Extreme poverty has fallen dramatically over the past 30 years—from 1.9 billion people (36 percent of the world’s population) in 1990 to 592 million (8 percent) in 2019.
  • Maternal, infant, and child mortality rates have been cut in half.
  • Life expectancy globally rose from 65 years in 1990 to 72 in 2017.
  • Smallpox has been defeated; polio eliminated in all but two countries; and deaths from malaria cut in half from 2000 to 2017.
  • The U.S. PEPFAR program has saved 17 million lives from HIV/AIDS and enabled 2.4 million babies to be born HIV-free.
  • Assistance programs can promote national economic progress and stability, which can make it more viable for citizens to remain at home rather than migrate to other countries.

metmike: I can see where there might be some overlap of this into the realm that Biden is asserting himself right now with regards to the Ukraine. So this is not clearly defined. However, the politics involving Russia and the US are at stake here based on issues that the rest of the world have in common with the US...........so this should be more of a team effort. 

But the UN, which is set up for global unity, has its own UN leadership that has no political clout or negotiating power....so it comes down to the leader of the free world and most powerful country of the world.........the president of the United States trying for force Russia to behave properly.

Sorry but I think that needs to change.  For one thing, its totally dependent on who the president of the US is....who was elected to run the US, not the world.

Trump and Biden have 2 totally different world governing agenda's. This would  mean that US elections determine the world's leadership policies with regards to addressing global politics like this.

There are almost 200 other countries in the world.

By TimNew - Jan. 3, 2022, 6:36 a.m.
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Just for the slower readers.


JMK and I said essentially the same thing, that the politicians who dislike Trump and like Biden did not have the US best interest as theur criteria.

MM accused me of changing the subject, which, of course, is absurd.

And then went on to agree with JMK.


Always entertaining.  :-)

By metmike - Jan. 3, 2022, 11:18 a.m.
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Dear Mr. Mis-characterization.

Now you don't even like it when I agree with somebody else and want to argue about that?

Tim: "JMK and I said essentially the same thing"


JMK:  "Mike your last chart points out my point. Of course the globalist disliked Trump ,wall ,climate change etc. Thats exactly what I was talking about he looked out for our country first on these things. I want my President to look out for us first. There was many things I didnt like about him but every thing on the last chart was what I did like about him, and if the rest of the world didnt like it to bad. Last time I looked I live in the USA"

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/79697/#79765


Which is what metmike was agreeing with in responding to JMK.


Tim's position that he defended vehemently as his main point and was what metmike and Tim were discussing was about..... world leaders and foreign countries view of Trump compared to their view of Biden. Tim has the complete opposite view as JMK on this.

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/79697/#79735

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/79697/#79763

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/79697/#79771

You can see all my responses to Tim's posts above:


That is NOT the same position or the same discussion Tim.  

I agree with both you and JMK that Trump looked out for America first..........if that's what you're saying your position is here.

Is that what you are telling us Tim and not that foreign leaders respected Trump much more than they do Biden?

Let's look for common ground please and not reasons to battle.

By TimNew - Jan. 4, 2022, 6 a.m.
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You can look at data all day and still draw incorrect conclusions MM.   The world leaders who had their hands in our pockets for decades like Biden better than Trump.     Golly gee,    what can that possibly mean?


OK MM.    Tell me what this statement says to you.


By metmike - Jan. 4, 2022, 12:50 p.m.
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Tim,

You are so obsessed with trying to find some sort of reason to argue and pick a fight over to prove that you are right that you are constantly blind to the blatant realities of discussions.

My objective is just to show objective/authentic data/facts in every discussion.

If I don't have them.........then I don't have a position. 

If somebody else has the data/facts.........I take their position or adjust to THEIR position.

It's as simple as that Tim.

I  showed the definitive data/facts and am only elaborating so that you might possibly realize the futility of trying to drag me into one of your battles.

Again, I am YOUR FRIEND. Not your adversary. 

https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/79697/#79829


Please try to think of it this way.

metmike is not right and Tim is not wrong.

metmike is not wrong and Tim is not right.

The authentic facts/data and evidence are always right and that's the side that metmike and Tim both want to always be on.

The thing that makes this the most difficult in 2022 is that our political affiliation determines HOW we interpret facts/data/evidence in this country. 

Objective truths that both parties agree on ..........no longer exist today. 

Whatever the left believes will be the opposite of what the right believes.

You know this is absolutely true.

However, that still doesn't stop you from having all your opinions and thoughts line up entirely with everything on the right..............as if they have the franchise on truth, ethics and everything good. 



By TimNew - Jan. 5, 2022, 3:08 a.m.
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I see you didn't understand the question.     No problem.


As far as objective truth, it's out there.  I deal with it every day. But, easily provable truths don't get much attention today.  We spend our time on the questions not easily answered,  easily debated.

Is socialism good?  Well. according to Bernie, "Democratic Socialism" is just swell.    Of course, the countries he uses as examples of swell "Democratic Socialism'  swear that they tried socialism and it didn't work so they went back to capitalism.  They do have massive "Social Saftey Nets",  but they could never afford them without sound capitalistic foundations.   They also have the highest per-capita consumption of anti-depressants, but that's another discussion.

Now,  you would think that one paragraph would end the debate on socialism, wouldn't you.   But it doesn't.  The bulk of the real debate between right and left is very simple.  It comes down to personal responsibility.


Do you want to take responsibility for your life?  Then you tend to side with the right.

Do you want someone else to take responsibility for your life?  Then you tend to side with the left. 

From student loans to health care and just about everything in between, it all boils down to the above question.

But you can't enter a debate using that simple question.   The reaction would be obvious. So,   we get lot's of smoke and mirrors. Percieved racism is a powerful tool. In order to support your idea that anyone should not be held responsible,  you must somehow present them as a victim.   And the more victims you have,  the better your argument.   So we see new groups added to the victims list all the time. It can be your race, your sex,  your "precieved" sex, your sexual preference, and on and on.


So,    that's why it's so hard to get to objective truths. There's too much "clutter" in the way.

By metmike - Jan. 5, 2022, 3:18 a.m.
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Thanks Tim!