james madison
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Started by mcfarm - Jan. 13, 2022, 10:50 a.m.

By 7475 - Jan. 14, 2022, 6:49 a.m.
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Yes McFarm

I believe , in Orwell's "1984", the featured government provided the public with all the info concerning attacks/threats to their well being which justified the armed conflicts in the world which were constantly present.

Of course this was simply justification to produce more goods to blow up ,keeping the economy humming.


By metmike - Jan. 14, 2022, 8:56 a.m.
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Does that include the forced  COVID vaccine crisis?

Or the election fraud crisis?

How about the southern border crisis?

Or the blah, blah, blah crisis?

I guess it only applies when the other side does things and uses terms that you do/use too!

By TimNew - Jan. 14, 2022, 9:34 a.m.
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Or the election fraud crisis?

How about the southern border crisis?

Please elaborate on how you feel the government used either of these to restrict our rights or impose their rule.

By metmike - Jan. 14, 2022, 1:09 p.m.
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Where in that last post did I use the word government or suggest it was about government?

The fake climate crisis is the one that most of us are familiar with. 

Here are some REAL crisis situations:

The top 10 crises the world can't ignore in 2022


By mcfarm - Jan. 14, 2022, 3:55 p.m.
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MM, I am not talking, and doubt Madison was either, about one side or the other. I am reminded of big over reaching government. You really need to get over Trump before they start you on medication.

By TimNew - Jan. 15, 2022, 7:06 a.m.
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Where in that last post did I use the word government or suggest it was about government?

I'm assuming your  post was in response to the quote from Madison who was essentially saying that Tyrants have often used crisis to control people.  You know, things like "You must do this because if you don't, people will DIE!!!, SO I/We are within my/our rights in curtailing your rights to whatever extend necassary in order to save lives"

That being the case, I was curious as to how you found the following relevant.

Or the election fraud crisis?

How about the southern border crisis?

BTW,  here's a quote from C.S. Lewis.  A genius IMO.   If you have not read any of his stuff,  I Strongly suggest you do.

Quote by C.S. Lewis: “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised...” (goodreads.com)

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”

By TimNew - Jan. 15, 2022, 7:14 a.m.
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To elaborate, a while after 9/11, when we started really "cracking down" on potential terrorist threats,   I said..

I would not want to live in a country where terrorist attacks were impossible.

The reason I felt/feel this way is because for the government to maintain that level of control, we'd have little or no freedom. Little or no privacy.  

By mcfarm - Jan. 15, 2022, 8:03 a.m.
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"those who torment us for our own good" ....what a wonderful quote there Tim.......thanks so smuch

By mcfarm - Jan. 15, 2022, 8:10 a.m.
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"under omnipotent moral busy bodies"  another awesome quote of what happened inn America recently...but must add a couple words..... under self professed omnipotent moral busy bodies....and then it would fit Obama  and company to a TTTTT

By metmike - Jan. 15, 2022, 12:21 p.m.
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"You really need to get over Trump before they start you on medication."

Thanks for the good advice mcfarm. If only the majority of republicans and people that are on your side....including you would take your own advice.

                the election...do not shoot the messeger            

                            56 responses |             

                Started by mcfarm - Nov. 7, 2021, 7:14 p.m.            




By metmike - Jan. 15, 2022, 12:35 p.m.
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What's so interesting about these conversations is that I agree very strongly with you all on individual rights and freedoms.

The main area that we disagree on is COVID/vaccine and the election of 2020.

On COVID and the vaccination, we disagree because I'm a scientist that uses RELIABLE, massive data  and science to save lives.............and you dwell on politics.

On the 2020 election, for me its all the massive data, evidence and the Constitution. For you guys..........your guy lost and the response has been to NOT just acknowledge it and to move forecast and focus entirely on the reasons that you lost as it should be. 

Since the person that still leads the party(Trump) and FOX news won't let that election go...........it continues to be a huge anchor that the democrats are more than happy to add weight to in order to sink the republican boat. You see that at times but then feed it by vehemently taking a stand to defend false 2020 narratives. 

Let 2020 go!

Stop battling over that election and elections and move forward with REAL issues that republicans have an advantage over.

The COVID vaccinations are NOT one of them.

Your position, indisputably killed tens of thousands of Americans last year. Best to NOT keep battling on that one.....but you will anyways. 

   90,000 US COVID-19 deaths could have been prevented             

                            Started by metmike - Jan. 9, 2022, 4:23 p.m.            


Supposedly, this is all about freedom and individual rights.

I'm strongly for those things. Why are they not connecting to my common sense, reality based ideology?

By TimNew - Jan. 15, 2022, 1:35 p.m.
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and you dwell on politics.

I  won't call ths a mischaraterization,  but it's a reasonable facsimile.   Yes, there are politicians on each side of the moral and ethical debate,  but it goes far beyond politics.

You want to rely on science, that's fine.  Data strongly supports getting the vaccine, or at least the available data so far.   But that's not the only question, and certainly not the most important one, in my mind. 

The main question for me is, how much control over my life am I wiling to cede to the government. And if they are allowed  to mandate vaccines,   what other decisions will they be allowed to make for us.

Based on historical fact, the potential scares the hell out of me.  Unchecked government will do what unchecked government always does.  We have not evolved beyond that and I suspect we never will.

By metmike - Jan. 15, 2022, 9:09 p.m.
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That makes sense Tim!