Health services to unvaxxed
17 responses | 0 likes
Started by wglassfo - Jan. 14, 2022, 9:57 a.m.


Do we ever have a hum dinger in Quebec, Canada

Decision by local health provider

If you are unvaxxed you get no health service

So could that decision be expanded to no lung cancer treatment for smokers, all kinds of stuff for fat people and etc. down the slippery slope we go in Canada

I suppose this is a solution for the Unvaxxed medical people losing jobs, or walking away.

Reduce the need for medical service for healthy people  only, who never go to a medical facility

Golly we are so sc$%^$% in Canada

By metmike - Jan. 14, 2022, 2:46 p.m.
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Actually Wayne, this is what Quebec is doing:

Quebec to impose "health contribution" tax on those who refuse COVID vaccines for non-medical reasons

People have a choice to take the vaccine or not, right?

When they get deathly sick from the bad choice of not getting vaccinated..... they are only hurting themselves, right?

Then why should the people of Quebec have to pay their medical bills, if they decided to make that bad choice because it supposedly doesn't affect anybody else?

Pro Life people make the case all the time that they don't want to pay for abortions. Why is this different?

Make the bad personal choice, live (or die) with the consequences and minimize the damage to other people.  

Comparing it to an addiction smoking that causes lung cancer and treatment?

Makes for a great discussion Wayne. Thanks for bringing it up!

How Can We Balance Ethics and Law When Treating Smokers?

By metmike - Jan. 14, 2022, 2:48 p.m.
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 Diane Francis: Make the unvaccinated pay for their own health care  Public health measures should not be confused with freedom of choice or rights

COVID-19: Can doctors refuse unvaccinated patients? Reports suggest this is already happening

By metmike - Jan. 14, 2022, 2:54 p.m.
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Unvaccinated? Here are some of the things that are off-limits to you in Canada

metmike: As mentioned numerous times, if you want to maximize your freedoms in any country............get vaccinated. Oh yeah, it saved a hundred thousand lives in the US in it also gave more live and be healthy!! 

However, with the Omicron being MUCH weaker and very contagious, its likely that most people will get it and this will establish natural herd immunity.

  Omicron =91% reduction in risk of death vs Delta            

                            Started by metmike - Jan. 12, 2022, 6:41 p.m.   

By mcfarm - Jan. 14, 2022, 3:25 p.m.
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I thought Canada had socialized medicine system? If so how are they cutting certain people out ad who decides? Why not cut out alcoholics or druggies, unwed mothers or hell just cut off old people

By wglassfo - Jan. 14, 2022, 6:34 p.m.
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That's were we fall down the slippery slope mcfarm

What about me

I smoked for 40  plus yrs

I don't today

If this continues down the slippery slope

I could be refused lung cancer treatment

Or what about all the fat people

Who decides

By cutworm - Jan. 15, 2022, 7:11 a.m.
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This is what you get when you have central planning, i.e. government health care. Shortages of workers, beds, meds and a one size fits all approach. 

By TimNew - Jan. 15, 2022, 7:24 a.m.
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When they get deathly sick from the bad choice of not getting vaccinated..... they are only hurting themselves, right?

Then why should the people of Quebec have to pay their medical bills, if they decided to make that bad choice because it supposedly doesn't affect anybody else?

MM,  you realize you can replace "Covid" in this statement with almost any illness or misfortune,  right?

By metmike - Jan. 15, 2022, 10:55 a.m.
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"MM,  you realize you can replace "Covid" in this statement with almost any illness or misfortune,  right?"

Yes, but I use facts and data and critical thinking and science and not paranoi and fear of government. 

You can mischaracterize me until the cows come home and claim that I am being naive or believe in things that I don't believe in(I'm very much for individual rights and freedoms that you guys are for) but I stick with the facts and realities and don't wildly speculate that this is all just a ruse by the government to take over our lives.......which will end up with many of us in concentration camps.

When they start making decisions that don't make absolute scientific and medical sense and don't  make America healthy and stronger decisions........THEN we'll have evidence that will suggest going beyond what's best for America(and Canada).

You can use your words out the wazoo but they don't negate any of the rock solid facts and data. You can keep repeating that the data is unreliable, because it obliterates your position and you would rather be in denial instead of acknowledging the truth...........BUT THE THE DATA.

And no, all the doctors and health care workers and hospitals and county health departments and states and government agencies and scientists are not all conspiring with each other to manipulate and alter the data to trick us, so they can take control of our lives. .......and only the far right sources see it clearly and have the REAL data and know the secrets being covered up.

It's blatantly obvious to those actually looking with an open mind...............they were and are trying to save lives. Fighting against that altruistic and good cause cost alot of Americans their lives in 2021. 

Trying to twist it to assign a nefarious, anti government meaning, when the government is trying valiantly to save lives...........means that you are on the wrong side of the battle.

When you are always against the government, when the government is doing things to save lives based on what's best for will always be on the wrong side of the battle and for what hurts America.

 Twist to mean what you want but the stark truth is that all these people died below from taking YOUR side and fighting the governments position. 

                90,000 US COVID-19 deaths could have been prevented             

                            Started by metmike - Jan. 9, 2022, 4:23 p.m.     

And you have no counter facts or data to rebut the truth, only a denialist response so that you can claim this data is unreliable and everybody is conspiring to trick/fool everybody else............except the far right that thinks that they are  gifted with unique discernment skills which allows them to see the secret motives behind all of this which the rest of us are totally missing.......and this will eventually result in us being in concentration camps.

No thanks, I'll just use critical thinking and proven data from reliable sources.......that includes all those dead people above............that really did die from COVID and really would have lived if they'd been vaccinated.

 You can have your paranoia and conspiracy theories. 

By metmike - Jan. 15, 2022, 11:14 a.m.
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"This is what you get when you have central planning, i.e. government health care. Shortages of workers, beds, meds and a one size fits all approach."

Right cutworm, according to this logic.......  I guess the government must have caused all these sick people filling our hospitals with their COVID vaccine policies.  If only they didn't try to help people stay healthy and prevent them from dying by forcing them to get vaccinated.

Right.........Forcing vaccinations on people causes widespread COVID outbreaks.

If only less people had been vaccinated...........then, there would be more hospital beds open for those dummies that listened to the government and got vaccinated and are near death now.

While you are  totally dwelling on your anti government paranoia,  you've been missing the reality...........the government in this case has been trying to save lives and make people healthier.

You are backing the wrong horse in this race.

This is anti critical thinking and instead, a  desire to twist things to blame the complete opposite of where the blame is. No, the data below is not made up to trick us. How is something so blatantly obvious not registering????

Weekly Update: #COVID19 case/death rates by county, partisan lean & vaccination rate


By metmike - Jan. 15, 2022, 11:15 a.m.
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I probably should have spent more time of this thread but it was obviously seen as a joke by some.

                Cognitive Bias/Conspiracy Theories            

                           6 responses |              

                Started by metmike - Nov. 6, 2021, 1:19 p.m.    

By TimNew - Jan. 15, 2022, 11:20 a.m.
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I don't think the word "mischaracterize" means what you think it does.  I certainly can't find anything resembing it in my above post.

It does almost seem you attempt to mischaracterize me as an "anti-vaxxer".   I am simply opposed to government control.

If you want to insist the data you rely on is 100% reliably accurate,  that's fine. But even Fauci questions at least some of it. There are lots of other questions that have been raised, and while I'm sure you'll dismiss them, certainly you'll accept Fauci's word,  right?

Fauci: Statistics Showing More Children Hospitalized "With Covid" During Omicron Wave Doesn't Imply They Are Hospitalized "Because Of Covid" | Video | RealClearPolitics

And that's all besides the point anyway.  Even if all your facts and data were 100% accurate and reliable,  I would still not support mandates for all the reasons I have already discussed.  I think everyone who does not have a valid health reason should get the vaccine.   I just don't think I have a right to force them to.  

By metmike - Jan. 15, 2022, 11:22 a.m.
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Regardless, the Omicron is going the bail the anti COVID vaxxers out by spreading quickly, establishing herd immunity and being 10 times LESS deadly as the Delta.

This will make getting vaccinated much less of a life saver in our future but it can't bring back the 100,000+ dead  from the year 2021 that didn't get vaccinated and would have lived. 

By cutworm - Jan. 15, 2022, 4:48 p.m.
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I was referring to the lack of Health care workers do at least partly to govern mandate firing some because of their refusal of the jab. Which does not stop the spread. 

Methods of treatment of the disease being withheld, not developed, and not produced. 

And now some talk about withholding care to the unvaccinated. These people pay taxes too.

Doesn't make sense - MarketForum

By metmike - Jan. 15, 2022, 6:27 p.m.
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Why keep repeating the "getting vaccinated does not stop COVID from being spread" narrative?

During the delta outbreak it massively cut down on people that need extreme care in hospitals.

We are not talking about people with COVID that didn't get real sick and didn't need health services. This is about the real sick people with COVID that needed health services and MOST of them got that way by not getting vaccinated.

This includes health care workers that get real sick and being more likely to get Delta COVID to begin with........thus more likely to spread it.

 You're actually a very smart dude. Why is this still unclear?

Besides the overwhelming strain on the health care system, these people also have families and loved ones that were devastated by the losses. Many of them that recovered took months to get back to normal.

My then, 32 year old son got COVID in November 2020(before vaccinations) and was telling me yesterday thats he's pretty sure that it would have killed me or my wife. I know several people that did die and numerous that got very sick and took months to recover.......all unvaccinated.

Do you guys just not know that many people(actually I do know several thousand but am not in close touch with most), are you blocking this out or have you all just been lucky?

Regardless of anecdotel reporting from metmike, the data is what matters..........and it's totally compelling.

Anybody that isn't pro COVID vaccine has a very serious problem with being able to see realities. 

If there was a pill that we could take 2 times, 3 weeks apart that increased your chances of NOT getting COVID by several times but most importantly, not getting really sick from COVID by 11 times and NOT dying from COVID by 15 times and was free with some people feeling bad for a day after the 2nd pill, what exactly would be the reason to NOT take it?

......Now let's add too that the government wanted you to take it to make you and all Americans healthier and to save 100,000 lives.

Suddenly, you would have the entire reason for tens of millions of Republicans to not get vaccinated and many tens of thousands of them died in 2021. Because the government wants them to do it.

You know this is true!

This is retarded man.

By metmike - Jan. 15, 2022, 6:49 p.m.
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ODD, otherwise known as Oppositional Defiance Disorder, is something that I'm extremely familiar with.

I tried to help a family member with it and I had a form of  it myself growing up.

A child with this will often, intentionally do things that they know are harmful to themselves and/or others to prove that they don't have to follow rules that adults tell them they must follow.

They would rather suffer the, sometimes serious consequences  of what that behavior causes to prove that they didn't have to comply than to give into adults/authorities telling them what to do.

Not just a penalty for breaking the rule but the consequences of what the rule protects them from.

It's one thing to be rebellious and independent as many youth are but this is a pathological version of extreme rebellion that defies all common sense and defies all good judgment.

Having a rule that protects them...............makes them want to break the rule.

Tens of millions of anti COVID vaxx republicans have the EXACT same frame of mind as that of a young person with a clinically diagnosed case of  ODD when it comes to how they view Biden or Fauci or the government trying to tell them what to do, especially when getting vaccinated.

It makes them fight AGAINST the rule that is there for their(and everybody's) own good. 

They are fighting against the rule there to protect them and prove that they don't have to follow the rule.........even if it kills them and others.


By metmike - Jan. 15, 2022, 7:52 p.m.
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Something like 40% of those with childhood ODD grow up into adults with lingering symptoms of ODD in their personalities.

Counceling can help these people by giving them objective therapy which helps them to see themselves and the world in proper perspective. ........if that's what they want. 

Here is 2022 we have a very dysfunctional world that features countless sources which intentionally program people to CREATE the ODD mentality in their readers/viewers.

The objective is to use that ODD thinking against their opponents. Cause them to HATE people that are not like them or disagree with them. Cause them to fight against anything those people stand for..........even if some of those things are actually good for people and this country. The objective is Oppositional Defiance of everything from the other side. By any standard, its at a Disorder level.

However, unlike people with conventional ODD, that have councelors and therapists trained to  help todays world, the affliction is being CAUSED by the sources that people go to for what they think is political therapy.

These sources are reaping massive benefits by attracting millions of viewers, telling them things they want to hear which pushes up profits and financial gain. 

Push  ideological agendas....from both sides.

It actually defines much of our world. 

You probably think that I'm only referring to the  COVID vaccine MISinformation or the Big Lie about the 2020 fake steal.

However, these situations were only using the same play book ant methods that have been used to capture minds and trick people into believing things that are the opposie of what is really happening............and get them fired up about it.

The fake climate crisis, the Mueller investigation. All using effective brainwashing by controlling false narratives and repeating the bs thousands of times, along with assistance of everybody on that side. 

in this recent case, the strategy has a new twist........create anger, rebellion and actions that are designed to defy rules.......despite rules being there to protect them.

Trick republicans into thinking that they are fighting for freedom and election integrity when the facts show the complete opposite. 

Using an ODD conditioning brainwash, we have a bunch of really angry republicans that want to fight against everything and anything that comes from the enemy.

Actually, even this isn't something new.

The democrats were extremely effective at rallying against ANYTHING that came from Trump with an extreme ODD mentality  while he was in office. The republicans are just copying it from the exact same playbook. The same one that republicans constantly called "foul play" over for 4 years but they are doing the exact same thing now. 

When you are part of a brainwash, by can't see it.....or it wouldn't be a brainwash. 

By metmike - Jan. 15, 2022, 8:19 p.m.
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There is a near 0 chance of it getting much better and high chance of it continuing to get worse.

What would cause it to get better?

FOX, in the last year has gone off the rails, far right MISinformation (I know because i watch them) Ever since Trump lost. 

Far right sources online have gone extreme with MISinformation. I have never been for censorship but, my GOD, you can't just let these nafarious sources obliterate the minds of tens of millions of people that are letting their intelligence be stolen. 

The power of the internet is 1,000 times that of sources from 30 years ago. Sources  ARE using it to brainwash tens of millions of people with silly conspiracy theories, fake news and lies that sound convincing and does NOT get fact checked by people that want to believe it all because they present it as if they have secrets being hidden and/or censored and their targets bite into it most of the time. .....allowing them to recruit ten of millions of people just by using MISinformation on the internet........exactly like high priests in a religious cult. 

Again, if you are part of a brainwash or believe in the MISinformation you are in denial and have no idea that YOU are the victim. 

Those victimizing people and stealing their intelligence portray themselves as defenders of freedom, truth and justice.

The other side that completely disagrees with them on almost everything, wants their loyal followers to believe the exact same thing about them being the sources for the real truth. 

Doing good fact checking would quickly uncover which ones are frauds and when they are being the most fraudulent.

Relying on YOUR source to point out when the other side is being fraudulent?

Yeah, that's a huge part of the problem.  

Believe everything from your side, never believe anything from the other side.

I'd say we have an unfixable problem. 

Anybody have idea's on how to work towards fixing it?

Other than the OTHER side coming around to YOUR side(which actually defines the mindset CAUSING the problem).

Good topic to start a new discussion on that Wayne would usually think of first.