Maybe this has been discussed some other time but if so I surely missed the debate
Would some body take the time and explain what the debate is about concerning " voting rights"
I have tried google and that plus what I read in headlines or articles just serves to confuse me
The folks crossing the border and voting rights really confuses me when I read goggle
this was explained very well yesterday by MLK's niece. She wants every ones vote to count and no fraud. Mean while the keepers of the black plantations {the libs} want to only count Dem votes and lots of fraud and certainly nothing so outragious as demanding an free ID when you vote
Wayne said: "Would some body take the time and explain what the debate is about concerning " voting rights......I have tried google and that plus what I read in headlines or articles just serves to confuse me"
mcfarm replied: "Mean while the keepers of the black plantations {the libs} want to only count Dem votes and lots of fraud"
Thanks for making it so crystal clear for Wayne,..............why people like him get so confused about what the issue is really about.........exactly because of confusing statements like that.
Wayne,
This is one of those off the charts politically divisive topics that both side manufacture narratives about to try to manipulate peoples opinions.
After the republicans lost the 2020 presidential election, they went off the deep end insisting that Biden only won because of widespread fraud that stole the election from Trump. Half of them still believe that. Many of those pratially coming to their senses however, keep insisting that the 2020 election featured massive fraud (of course all by democrats).\
All objective investigations, recounts and audits showed no increase in fraud and no evidence to substantiate the republicans false narrative. The one in AZ actually gave Biden MORE votes.
It did find some mistakes that were not related to fraud and not related to 2020 that should be addressed.
Since that time, republicans have been pushing for stricter rules to make it tougher to vote because they say that it will lessen the widespread fraud by democrats(that doesn't exist based on facts/data).
Voter ID is one of them. Democrats claim that poor people and black Americans will find it more difficult to produce voter ID and many of the new rules discourage democrats from voting. Republicans also don't like mail in voting.
Democrats, basically are for everything that makes voting easier for everybody.
This issue is 100% political and you will get views here, like mcfarms that give you one extreme side.
Personally, I think voter ID is a good thing but disagree that it will eliminate all the widespread cheating/fraud by democrats............because the widespread cheating/fraud by democrats is completely made up by republicans............especially right after they lose elections!!!
However, after democrats too will claim there was fraud and cheating after THEY lose.
Hillary Clinton claimed this after the 2016 election, though she applied stealth in doing this. She used Jill Stein to contest the results in some states and insisted that Russian interference was responsible. Of course the Mueller investigation was entirely about discrediting the 2016 election results and it found exactly 0 evidence of that.........but went on for over 2 years, to give the dems and MSM all that time to repeat the false Russian Collusion narrative thousands of times(that never happened). The report came out..........surprise, Trump didn't collude with Russia and they knew it for 2 years.
But they were determined to get a win out of it. They set up some of Trumps, low character, extreme thinking associates with baited questions related to their questionable activities, which they knew would cause them to lie and got them on perjury.
I have some recent articles that might help on the next page:
Extensive research reveals that fraud is very rare. Yet repeated, false allegations of fraud can make it harder for millions of eligible Americans to participate in elections.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/debunking-voter-fraud-myth
By Bob Christie
Published
SO this is what I would do some what based on my experience in Canadian voting
# 1: Everybody votes on election day. Enough voting booths so nobody waits more than 15 minutes. With all the money spent on elections by both sides, an amount equal to your share of registered voters goes toward paying for lots of voting booths. Example:
Each voting booth has a maximum of 500 names and at least 5 people available to handle the voters when they arrive. Voting booths spread out according to population density and miles from homes so nobody can say they can't get to a voting booth at least by public transit
# 2: Nobody votes with out proof of citizenship and photo I.D. It is your responsibility to check the voters list to make sure your name is included. Voters lists are posted 3 weeks before election day at all post offices and Motor vechicle offices
# 3: You can vote in advance by requesting a voter ballot delivered by post and returned by post. I don't know how long for the post office to do a turn around but pre-paid registered mail to track the ballot and sufficient time for armed forces posted off shore to return a ballot.
I repeat:
Unless you voted in advance and within the rules of advance voting, then you vote on election day, in person with photo I.D, proof of citizenship and your name on the voters list
What is so difficult about these rules???
Thanks Wayne!
Makes sense to me. I think a hard one to accomplish is to keep everybody's wait to 15 minutes or less.
Who could be against that?
https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx
What is the longest time you have waited at a fast food joint, for take out
"What is the longest time you have waited at a fast food joint, for take out"
Hugh?
If you want to be taken seriously and have a good plan for shortening the time for over 100 million people to vote in 1 day.............this is counterproductive and shows you don't understand the process.
I agree that we should minimize the time that people have to wait to vote and part of that would be making it as easy as possible but...........wait, that's the opposite of what republicans are trying to do.
You do realize Wayne that more mail in voting would reduce the amount of wait times in voting lines on election day?
But I still think that I like the idea of providing picture ID....but that does make things a bit more difficult for some people.....so I see the other side too.
All objective investigations, recounts and audits showed no increase in fraud and no evidence to substantiate the republicans false narrative. The one in AZ actually gave Biden MORE votes.
MM, You keep making statements like this in spite of all the data to the contrary. I suppose you figure that eventually, people will stop busting it wide open.
Yes, there were more ballots for Biden identified in the AZ audit. But you can't ignore that the number of ballots identified as fradulaent far exceeded the increase. And much the same was shown to be true in the Fulton County Audit. Both places where extensive audits were conducted yielded much the same results. And this does not include the potential for things like ballot harvesting, etc. One of the things that the current attempted takeover by the federal government attempts to preserve. They also have objections to standard voter id requirements.
One of the very "useful" practices of ballot harvesting. A dem operative heads to a nursing home with a suitcase full of ballots and "helps" the residents fill them out. What could possibly go wrong? I can't imagine a dem operative would influence the resident in how to fill them out or even inadvertantly "lose" ballots they don't like.
What would motivate one side to support initiatives so vulnerable to fraud? I can only come up with one reason.
But now, Biden is comparing people opposed to this nonsense to historical racists. Such a uniter.
Anyway, my objective, and the objective of all the initiatives I see, the ones Biden refers to as "Jim Crow On Steriods", are attempts to make sure every legal voter gets to vote and every legal vote gets counted. As there is no valid argument against such an effort, arguments , largely based on racism, are being invented in what appears to me to be a last ditch effort by the left to maintain some semblence of control in an environment where leftst control is in a very precarious position. And they are using every means at their disposal, including getting rid of the fillibuster.
Thanks Tim,
The audits did NOT show cheating by democrats ........but the republicans insist there IS cheating by democrats and that's why we need tougher voting requirements.
I like the idea of picture ID but am not positive because it MIGHT hurt poor people and I could be persuaded to change that.
But I would never claim it would stop cheating by democrats.............UNLESS I had proof there IS widespread cheating by democrats. I would say that it would cut down on the potential for some CHEATING. How much and from what party?
That's where this battle has become a problem
Your side should:
1. Stop tying this to the cheating in the 2020 election which caused Trump to lose. You don't do it but at least half your party still does it vigorously. When they do that..........the battle is lost before it starts.
2. Stop tying this to it being targeting cheating by democrats(which is just the same view as #1 but stating that democrats always cheat in every election)
Using the current view, it just turns it into 100% politics aimed against making the democrats successful, which makes it easy, peasy for them to attack it as being aimed at making it more difficult for minorities/poor people to vote.
If your position was to eliminate cheating by republicans and democrats, then they couldn't do that..............but to sell it to republicans(which is what everything is about) it has to be spun as something that gives the republicans an advantage and takes away an advantage from the democrats...........you know this is the case and of course the democrats are going to oppose any situation presented like that.
Previous discussions on this:
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/75326/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77329/#77418
Hi 7475
If we put the operators of the fast food chains in charge of voting booths, no line ups longer than 15 minutes
If the line is longer than 15 minutes bet you they could get it fixed before the day is done
These dudes know how to move people thru the store and most everybody is happy and comes back for more
Put then in charge of voting booths and enough lead time to get their ducks in a row,
Presto: no more long lines to vote
If you can get to a drop box these dudes will have a voting booth within 50' on election day. Maybe 10 or 20 depending on how many voted last time at the drop box. All you have to do is find your number [example tent 19] go in and vote with proper credentials
No more drop boxes
Security with ballots at nursing home. Security [one pub and one Dem take ballots to central counting station
Ballots counted verified and phoned in to central before anybody goes home
Security stays around until the last vote is phoned in
Heck it could be done if the people want it done
If not you don't have democracy
If we can do it so can you. After all you always tell us to go pound salt, you so dam smart.
Poopey pants may not be the right person for the job
I admit that makes it tough but you folks elected him so let poopey pants figure it out.
What about that 25th amendment stuff???
Wayne,
I appreciate your objective very much. It's a goal that we should be trying to achieve.
Fast food restaurants invest billions of dollars in buildings that take many months to build and set up to accommodate PAYING customers 365 days a year, with trained. paid employee's who serve food with a well designed production and delivery system.
Comparing polling stations, to fast food restaurants would be like comparing a cheetah, the world's fastest animal to a raccoon and suggesting that if a raccoon just ate cheetah food and acted like a cheetah, it would get faster.
Or suggesting a dog eat what birds eat and mimic a chirping sound... so they can fly.
Voting stations are run by many civil duty/unselfish minded volunteers that do this once or twice a year, at makeshift locations that are set up for the voting process..........using resources that are sometimes limited and often under allocated based on serving the needs of some of the higher population density locations.
Here are some suggestions based on comparing long wait polling places to..... short wait polling places.
Summary: Long waits at polling places are disruptive, disenfranchising, and all too common. Black and Latino voters are especially likely to endure them.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/waiting-vote
MM, I find it hillarious that you accept one point from the audit, that there were more ballots counted for Biden as a result, but reject or ignore the rest.
We have not reached a point where there is conclusive proof of coordinated fraud. We have reached a point where we proved there were thousands of invalid ballots. And that is more than enough reason to justify voter id requirements.
As far as that farcical 'Poor people can't get id's' , in a society where you need id for just about everything, including attending the DNC convention, I can't imagibe a credible argument.
I will repeat what I said
If we can do it, why can't you folks??? minimum fraud allegations and minimum waiting times [just in case there was fraud I did not know about, but I doubt it] We mostly all vote on election day. All we hear about is a re-count on close results. Nobody even mentions fraud because we have none that I know about.
We don't even know what a drop box is in Canada, ballot harvesting etc are all foreign words you americans use. We don't know what those words mean
Our local voting station has the ballots counted and phoned in in roughly 1/2 - 3/4 hr after voting stops. We have enough workers and voting booths to keep people moving. I know because I was a security person one yr, allowed to count and verify. There were others like me doing the same thing
It can be done
You folks need to come to Canada and learn how to vote
Then you and Tim would have no need to argue fraud because there is none, and everybody knows there is none
Mail in ballots, drop boxes are ripe for fraud
Get rid of them
I just shake my head because some of you are too dumb to learn
If you want to continue with fraud then you are a banana republic, with a money printer
All of which will come crashing down some day
Problem is we will come crashing down with you
If we could escape the fall out of your foolish ways then we would not care
"We have not reached a point where there is conclusive proof of coordinated fraud."
Still repeating that narrative I see?
There will always be speculative, theoretical coordinated fraud by democrats taking place, no matter how many investigations, audits, recounts and legal challenges that haven't shown it..........YET.
But it's out there. We just know it is.
Whatever trick they are using to win elections using hidden coordinated fraud to evade detection, it must be ingenious.
Either that orrrrrrrr, all the investigations, audits, recounts and legal challenges to challenge the validity of the 2020 presidential election that the republicans really did lose legitimately..... by every objective standard and measure...ARE THE INDISPUTABLE PROOF there was no coordinated fraud.
Conceding that, however, for many would mean that:
1. Trump really did lose and
2. Democrats are not really cheating in elections, which would steal the narrative away for justifying the need for picture ID.
The main reason for picture ID is the assertion that Democrats have an advantage from their cheating which republicans want to take away.
I haven't decided entirely on the picture ID thing.......partly because the premise by republicans that its to stop the coordinated/widespread fraud by democrats, which is amplified many times greater than what really exists based on the reality of data, facts and evidence bothers me.
I am repeating essentially the same thing I repeat everytime you repeat the nonesense of "No conclusive proof and Biden won more ballots than we thought" nonsense. And even immedeatly after repeating it you still fail to acknowledge it. With hours and reams of data.
Which is why more and more of our exchanges end with ...
:-)
And Wayne, I agree. If we adopt measures to reasonably assure voter integrity, you know, like voter id's and restrictions on mail ins, debates like this become obsolete.
But we have a significant faction that appear to want the possibility of fraud. Surely there is a reason other than the obvious.
Thanks Tim!
You're welcome MM.. :-)