2000 Mules 7-17-22 new thread for Tim/forum
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Started by metmike - July 17, 2022, 1 p.m.

Tim wants to discuss 2000 mules again here, so let's do it.



Last messages from old thread:



Got any new evidence Tim or cutworm or mcfarm? Others, going either way?

Preferably actual EVIDENCE or legal entity investigations that are finding it valid and planning to use it or somebody(s) actually credible.

Cutting and pasting more election stolen rhetoric from the same people  saying the election was stolen and that have been debunked dozens of times is the opposite of evidence. 

In fact, it's more evidence that they have decided the election was stolen and will manufacture or believe manufactured information to support that and their credibility has been obliterated.

Despite that, I would still believe them for the first time............if you/they can provide evidence.

Months after the release,  if that's not the case after everybody and their brother has had time to fact check the use of the data.........where will the NEW information come from to show otherwise? (just the same people, repeating the same false narratives)


Since the additional evidence from investigations is likely to be massive, let's start a new thread because this thread has already reached an excessive length. 

By mcfarm - July 17, 2022, 4:54 p.m.
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By metmike - July 17, 2022, 5:23 p.m.
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Thanks mcfarm,

I'll wait for other replies too.

By metmike - July 18, 2022, 1:07 a.m.
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Let's get started. Please feel free to post information that you feel relevant to this topic at any time even though we've not had any posts pertaining to 2000 mules since we opened the new thread. 

mcfarms thread was not about 2000 mules but threads don't have to always be exact. They can be about something related or even unrelated. No rules about that here.

I had the chance to review the 2000 mules evidence again today based on 2 additional months worth of investigations, analysis, fact checking  and reporting that provided us with much more insight than was available immediately after the release.

Initially, I was opened minded as indicated after the movie came out:

                By metmike - May 8, 2022, 1:28 p.m.            

             " what Dinesh claims is entirely possible"

          One nation, tracked     An investigation into the smartphone tracking industry from Times Opinion                  


As the facts poured in shortly after the movies release, the evidence was almost all telling us one thing.

But there were things that we didn't know then, that we know now.


By metmike - May 8, 2022, 1:38 p.m.

mcfarm: "and just who are these "authorities D'Sousa is supposed to trust."

metmike: "How about every republican in Congress mcfarm.

How about the Heritage foundation that I showed you above with legit, prosecuted election fraud in their data base. 

How about Judicial Watch.

How about the dozens of  other republican entities that would go to bat for him.

How about republicans in local offices in the states where this happened, including Attorney Generals and prosecutors in the counties that it occurred in.

Note that the ones embracing this.........were the same ones embracing The Big Lie all along, including Lindell, Trump and Rudy."

By metmike - July 18, 2022, 1:25 a.m.
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Tim said in early May that Georgia was investigating 2000 mules to see if it's credible:

Georgia investigation dispels allegations highlighted in ‘2000 Mules’


Surveillance video showed a man pull up in a white SUV and insert five absentee ballots into a Gwinnett County drop box, leading to allegations of “ballot harvesting” promoted by the movie “2000 Mules.”

An investigation revealed he was delivering ballots for his family, which is allowed under Georgia law.

The State Election Board voted unanimously Tuesday to dismiss that case and two similar claims that voters had illegally returned absentee ballots. An investigator told the board that in each case, he tracked license plate numbers, interviewed voters and confirmed that ballots belonged to family members in the same household.

“Just because something looks compelling doesn’t mean it’s accurate,” said Matt Mashburn, the Republican chairman of the State Election Board. “We wanted to reassure the public that yes, we have seen the videos, we are taking them very seriously, we’re tracking every one of them down, and we’ll report back to you what we find.”

ExploreWhat ‘2000 Mules’ leaves out of ballot harvesting claims

The board decided the cases as “2000 Mules” spreads the theory that 2,000 people in five states, including Georgia, collected and delivered multiple absentee ballots, a practice called “ballot harvesting.” Georgia law prohibits voters from delivering anyone’s ballot besides their own, with exceptions for family members and caregivers of disabled voters.

So far, Georgia election investigators have debunked the movie’s allegations, which conservative filmmaker Dinesh D’Souza used to assert that the 2020 presidential election was stolen from Republican Donald Trump.

One of the videos reviewed by the State Election Board was featured in “2000 Mules” and on “Tucker Carlson Tonight” on Fox News. The other two cases involved videos reported to the secretary of state’s office.

The voter who filed complaints about the videos, David Cross, said perpetrators should be prosecuted and punished.

“No one has been held accountable,” Cross told the board. “I’m embarrassed to be a Georgian. Is this the way we run elections in the greatest country on Earth, like some third-rate banana republic?”

Even if ballot harvesting occurred, it wouldn’t invalidate legitimate ballots that were returned by unauthorized individuals. Verified ballots of registered voters still count, regardless of how they were delivered.

Sara Tindall Ghazal, the only Democrat on the State Election Board, criticized the unproven allegations of misconduct.

“Despite the lack of evidence of widespread illegal ballot collection activities, real harm has been caused by these unsupported allegations asserted by people seeking to profit off of it,” Ghazal said.

“I would encourage True the Vote to cooperate with us,” board member Ed Lindsey said. “Let’s get to whether or not these allegations have any merit.”

All absentee ballots in Georgia’s presidential election were mailed to the voters who requested them, and voters could only cast one ballot each. Every returned ballot was required to be inside an envelope that included the voter’s registration information, signature and a bar code. Ballots delivered without an envelope weren’t counted.

metmike:  Dinesh/True The Vote is trying to convince people that their movie is legit and all these votes were illegal.

If that were true they should be doing everything humanly possible to get their evidence in the hands of  investigation boards like this in GA..........that only had 1 democrat on it.

Instead, they refuse to hand over the evidence they claim supports the 2000 Mules theory....TO REPUBLICANS THAT WOULD SUPPORT THEM!

So its obvious that they are full of crap and in fact, strongly suggests this was done to make money off of republican election 2020 ignorance and they don't want to be busted for using republicans this way.

By metmike - July 18, 2022, 1:31 a.m.
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Fact Check-Does ‘2000 Mules’ provide evidence of voter fraud in the 2020 U.S. presidential election?


Listing all of the steps needed to falsify a ballot, Gronke told Reuters: “1) You need a falsified ballot with a unique bar code, printed on special paper, and a special envelope. If the claim is that you’ve somehow obtained 400,000 original ballots without the elections officials or voters knowing, how precisely did you do this?

“2) You need to successfully forge the voter’s signature. 3) You need to deposit the envelope and have it validated by a local official.

“Congratulations! Besides committing a felony, you have now cast ONE fraudulent ballot. Now you need to figure out how to do that hundreds of thousands of times, in different jurisdictions, with different ballot styles and different voting materials.”

Gronke’s sentiments were echoed by Christopher B. Mann, Associate Professor of Political Science at Skidmore College, who told Reuters: “If there are 400,000 people who had their ballot collected and returned for nefarious reasons, there should be significant numbers of people willing to tell their story. It is hard for two people to keep a secret. Asserting that 400,000 people are keeping a secret is beyond credibility.”

By metmike - July 18, 2022, 1:33 a.m.
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William Barr mocks ‘2000 Mules’ movie during Jan. 6 hearing, a film Sen. Mike Lee claimed had merit.

Former Attorney General William Barr said the film ‘failed to deliver’ on claims of ballot trafficking, while Lee said the movie raised ‘significant questions’ of the 2020 election


The film claims “ballot trafficking” was widespread enough to rig the 2020 election for Joe Biden.

In taped testimony, Barr says he watched the film with an open mind, but it failed to deliver on those claims, even chuckling when he brought up the movie.

“My opinion is that the election was not stolen by fraud, and I haven’t seen anything since the election that changes my mind on that, including the ‘2000 Mules’ movie,” the former attorney general said during his testimony.

Barr called the analysis of the data in the film “singularly unimpressive.”

“The premise, if you go by five boxes or whatever it was, that that’s a mule is just indefensible. The photographic evidence was lacking. It didn’t establish widespread harvesting,” Barr said.

“If you take two million cell phones and figure out where they are physically in a big city like Atlanta or wherever, just by definition, you’re going to find many hundreds of them have passed by and spent time in the vicinity of these boxes. The premise that’s a ‘mule’ is just indefensible,” Barr added.

“2000 Mules” has been thoroughly debunked, with experts casting doubt on several claims.

Barr added even if it were to prove allegations of ballot harvesting, there’s no proof it would have changed the election results.

By metmike - July 18, 2022, 1:53 a.m.
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Evidence Gaps in ‘2000 Mules’  


But notably, none of the video footage used in the movie shows any individual depositing ballots at multiple drop boxes — a shortcoming D’Souza attributes to the fact that many jurisdictions did not capture surveillance video of drop boxes as required by law, or that in many cases the video was too grainy to definitively identify people.

We are, however, shown numerous surveillance videos of people placing multiple ballots into a drop box — which the film claims is direct evidence of crime. But in at least three cases so far, Georgia investigators say the video actually shows people legally dropping off ballots for eligible voters who are immediate family members living in their home.

Given the allegations that True the Vote has come forward with, I believe that it is incumbent of us and the attorney general to pursue those allegations and to see if it indeed has any merit or not,” election board member Ed Lindsey, a Republican, said.

Everybody/entity  that investigates(mostly republicans hoping to turn up something).........finds nothing...........except facts that debunk the movie or Dinesh's people refusing to cooperate or to release their SECRET evidence.


By metmike - July 18, 2022, 2:07 a.m.
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This is mcfarm's source:


"The Supreme Court is about to prove Trump right about 2020 with this bombshell decision."

Zero evidence of anything in that story and for the 1,000th time, just a claim by another far right source that evidence about the big lie is coming.

Like............it's been hiding from everybody  for 20 months and somehow, hundreds of investigations, recounts, legal challenges and so on that turned up nothing substantial..........all completely missed it months but now...........we are told the real evidence is coming.

And you believed the first 999 times that let you down because they never did have any of the promised evidence, so why change now with the 1,000th time.

By metmike - July 18, 2022, 2:18 a.m.
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I only picked a handful of the articles out there busting this fraudulent movie to post here.

There are many dozens more:

And of course, every one of the 60-70% of the republicans that think that Biden stole the election and the far right republicans are pushing  the 2000 mules science fiction/conspiracy theory. 

They believe it............because Trump told them he won and Fox & the far right republicans that act as the high priests in the cult, know that making up stories that tell people what they want to hear is MUCH BETTER than telling them the truth to get them upset over having the election stolen from their cult hero so they will rally in his behalf and despise the evil democrats that did this...........depicting Trump as a victim instead of seeing him as what he truly is..........a dangerous predator feeding on more than half of the republican brains.

By TimNew - July 18, 2022, 6:09 a.m.
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And these are the people you are relying on to discredit 2000 mules?

They have no auditability on absentee ballots. I'm embarrassed for my state.

GA Secretary of State Office: ‘We Don’t Know How Many Absentee Ballots Arrived by Mail Versus Drop Box’ (breitbart.com)

Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger has no idea how many of the 1.3 million absentee ballots counted in the state in the November 3 general election were delivered by mail and how many were collected and delivered from the 300 absentee ballot drop boxes he and the Georgia State Election Board approved for use in the election.

“We don’t know how many absentee ballots arrived by mail versus drop box. The counties can tell you,” a spokesperson for Raffensperger told Breitbart News on Wednesday.

To date, election officials from two counties have responded to the Breitbart News request for ballot transfer forms.

Meanwhile, I heard lots of people claim cel phone tracking is just not accurate enough, and yet, our military uses it quite successfully.

Military Targeting Based on Cellphone Location - Just Security

A recent news story by Glenn Greenwald and Jeremy Scahill details the use of NSA signals intelligence (SIGINT) – including cellphone and SIM card data – to locate and kill suspected militants in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen.

By metmike - July 18, 2022, 11:56 a.m.
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Your intentionally ignoring the facts again,  Tim.

This is from the Georgia investigation posted earlier, in bold and underlined earlier just for you but apparently that still isn't enough.


All absentee ballots in Georgia’s presidential election were mailed to the voters who requested them, and voters could only cast one ballot each. Every returned ballot was required to be inside an envelope that included the voter’s registration information, signature and a bar code. Ballots delivered without an envelope weren’t counted.


Tim, how did all these mules steal 400,000 state created presidential ballets from people who were going to vote for Trump change them to Biden,  forge their signature and also steal their state created envelope that included the voters registration information and a unique state created bar code....... before delivering them to drop boxes as Dinesh claims?

C'mon man, put your critical thinking cap on!

By metmike - July 18, 2022, 12:10 p.m.
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Military Targeting Based on Cellphone Location - Just Security


MLB players can hit a homerun in every game/ at bat.

Did a player last night hit a homerun because of that fact?

Let's look at the facts to see and not claim that somebody else hit a homerun last week against the same pitcher as evidence THIS PLAYER hit a homerun, while ignoring THE DIRECT EVIDENCE of this player in his at bat, against this pitcher last night. 

If the DIRECT EVIDENCE shows he didn't hit a homerun last night..........he didn't hit a home run. End of story.

Trying to convince people that another player, at a previous time hit a homerun when facing the same pitcher would never work in MLB.

However, in politics, the name of the game is to trick people into believing impossible things BECAUSE THEIR MINDS WANT TO BELIEVE IT!

The overwhelming evidence/authentic facts clearly shows that 2000 mules could not have happened. Almost impossible to begin with but shown impossible with more facts.

Just give them any reason at all. Even reasons that make no sense or are inconsistent and they WILL believe. 

This is why the majority of republicans believe that Trump won.

Not should have won but actually  still believe that Trump won. They decided to believe that from the get go and will always believe that and will always believe any reasons, no matter how crazy that tell them that. 

Dinesh KNEW that when he made the fraudulent movie.

Now, he's millions richer and most republicans love him even more.

Win-WIN situation for him............even as he refuses to give up the so called evidence/data to prove his case to  investigators.

The rest of the world knows to never trust anything he says again.

By metmike - July 18, 2022, 12:18 p.m.
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Of the countless(many thousands) of republican prosecutors and legal entities that are chomping at the bit to use information like this in court or to show legit fraud.........they have almost all done these things:

1. Distanced themselves from it

2. Investigated it and found it not credible

3. Condemned it

But Tim at Marketforum has already committed himself to supporting it as credible information and there's NEVER going back for him.

Now, we just step back and  observe how creative the manufactured realities are and analyze this behavior.

Because the facts have long ago provided conclusive evidence for open minded people to gain authentic discernment about 2000 mules.

By TimNew - July 22, 2022, 7:43 p.m.
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I don't know why I contimue this quixotic pursuit, but one last time..

Regarding logic,  as a computer scientist, I think it's safe to say that my understanding of logical concepts is probably better than most.  That's why all your hopelessly flawed anaologies pain me so.

Like the following..

MLB players can hit a homerun in every game/ at bat.

Did a player last night hit a homerun because of that fact?

Homeruns are possible.  Homeruns are not inevitable or even likely.     So, your analogy is flawed on it's face, before you even try to apply it to the case of cel tracking.

A few weeks ago, you claimed the technology, the basis for 2000 mules was not accurate enough to support the conclusions.  I provided an example showing the miitary relies quite heavily on the technology to not only track targets, but to define drone strike coordinates.

So, the question is binary.  Is the science valid or not.    I, and the military, demonstrated that it is.

By metmike - July 22, 2022, 8:36 p.m.
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thanks, Tim!
Bragging about your logical skills and how smart you are gets no weighting.

Displaying a lack of them/it is what counts.

to answer why you keep coming back to this thread and others like them.

you can’t stand being wrong, Tim and need to keep conjuring up reasons that always make you right, no matter that the evidence that you are wrong is the size of Mt. Everest.

again, like always, I’m just analyzing your behavior.

the Crystal clear authentic facts have all been presented And that’s not what this post is about.

it’s about why you reject them…..again and again. 

its very much connected to you following a political ideology/belief system that can never be wrong, or personally be wrong….using the faith of a religion TI’m.

but I still like you and very much appreciate your numerous posts, many of them very positive! 

please see my post(s) to mcfarm, earlier.

Here that post is:



By TimNew - July 23, 2022, 5:26 a.m.
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Ahh, so you don't like statements like this?

"The main difference between you and me is that I'm an atmospheric scientist armed with most of the authentic data and spent a couple of decades studying, interpreting and sharing it." 

And, once again, I am not wrong when I point out the flaws in your logic.

Comparing a variable like home runs to a binary like "is the science good/bad" is simply flawed logic before you even try to analyse it.  Variables cannot be compared to logical operators.

And in one of your flawed disertations, you dismissed 2000 mules because the science was flawed.    Do I need to link the actual discussion, or will you for once, admit that you made a statement that is invalid?..  Or will you once again play the "Strawman" Card  <G>  

Now,  you may argue that the application of the valid science was flawed.  That's another discussion.   But you can't dismiss the findings on "flawed science".     Are you able to follow me here.

Finally, the main point I've been trying to make, 2000 Mules is not absolute proof without some verification.  I believe that in process.

All the evidence in all the cases that were dismissed "for lack of standing" does not mean there was no evidence.  It means the court didn't want to hear it. Did you know that well over 90% of the cases brought in relation to the election were dismissed for "lack of standing"?

And I have some first hand knowledge of lots of irregularities and suspicious activity right here in my county.  Invalid addresses. One ballot had a return address of an auto parts store.  Proof that people voted in 2 counties. The list goes on and on. And the powers that be refused to hear any of it.  Was my county unique?   Doesn't appear to be the case.

So, in the final,  I won't say there is proof that invalid ballots changed the outcome of the election.    Much of the evidence was ignored/stonewalled, so at this point, we'll probably never know for sure.

But anyone who states without a doubt that this was the most secure election in the history of the country is something other than objective.

By metmike - July 23, 2022, 9:03 a.m.
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Thanks for repeating the statement that clearly defines the difference between us, Tim.

the authentic data, facts and evidence are everything and should always be everything. Practicing the scientific method authentically compels one to always try to prove oneself wrong …..which includes looking at all the evidence of others that is supposed to contradict yours…..and when that fails…...only then having confidence of being right.

the politics define almost all your opinions, It’s an absolute, like a religion.

before we have all the data, facts and evidence to use for authentic discernment…..you usually have come to a conclusion using your political interpretation…..and nothing will change your mind.

again, this is totally not a knock on your intelligence.

it’s a knock on the fact that you use the ANTI scientific method.

you thought that I was bragging about being a scientist and missed the entire point. I was telling you that I live by the code of the scientific method which I just spelled out with clarity to demonstrate the difference between us, since you are just not getting it Because you never listen to other people that disagree with you.

it’s that anti scientific method that causes You to ignore and very often mischaracterize what you consider an opponent to defeat in an argument where you are always right Because you usually make your political conclusion from the get go.

you  threatened to go back and use something else that I said, just like you brought up this quote.

pretty please do that Tim. Then we can discuss more why you ignored or misxharacterized the original points and see if you want to actually try to understand  What another person said, instead of what you wanted it to say.

like with mcfarm, you think that we are having an argument That you can win.
what is actually happening from my end is that I’m observing and analyzing your behavior and contemplating what is going on AND learning about people by viewing the world thru your eyes….then sharing it.

im totally sincere about that.

pits would be especially rewarding to know that I’m not the only one learning about people here.

By metmike - July 23, 2022, 9:15 a.m.
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Readers are welcome to review this thread and the previous one about it:


For reader, Tim who has a great deal going for him, especially with intelligence, my advice is..........for once try to see the points of another person which in this case are directed at you learning about yourself........TO HELP YOU!

Life is too short and there is so much to learn and be grateful for in our limited time on this planet.

Every day passed, is one less day we have left to appreciate and  cherish that fact.

By TimNew - July 23, 2022, 9:30 p.m.
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I really feel the need to apologize here MM.   Sincerely.

This discussion is obviously well beyond your grasp.  

I'll try to be more fair going forward

By metmike - July 23, 2022, 10:11 p.m.
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Funny Tim.

If you want to lower yourself with attempts at demeaning me..........that's on you, man.

It just provides me and others with another observation, while contributing nothing more than that to the conversation.

You're trying to take the conversation into a dark place and I don't play that game, so we should go on to something else, please. 

By TimNew - July 24, 2022, 7:09 a.m.
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I honestly do not see humor here in any shape or form.

But I do promise to take my auduence into consideration here going forward.