Freedom of Speech
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Started by joj - Nov. 19, 2022, 6:13 a.m.

Elon Musk is running a poll to see if Twitter users want to have Trump reinstated.  (as if he hasn't already decided) 

I guess that's one way to drum up business.  

I think Trump should be reinstated because we live in a country where Freedom to incite an insurrection to bring down the government is enshrined in our constitution.  If you don't want to listen to Trump, then don't follow him.  See how easy that was?  What could go wrong with that?  I mean come on.  It's not like he yelled "FIRE" in a crowded theater or something.   

By 12345 - Nov. 19, 2022, 9:07 a.m.
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By metmike - Nov. 20, 2022, 12:53 a.m.
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There are obviously 2 sides to this issue on censorship. More later and other comments/opinions are very welcome. 

With regards to Musk doing exactly what he said that he would do.

I get that the guy got really rich by making some brilliant business decisions that turned out to multiply his wealth by an extreme number of times.

His advise in the article below is outstanding:

How Did Elon Musk Make His Money? 7 Tips From Elon

Musk is a genius in some realms of business that rewarded him for being so.

In this one below, either he's a complete idiot and/or he's just trying to get attention.

Elon Musk: Mars civilization is 20-30 years away from landing

The SpaceX founder frequently tweets about reaching Mars

Elon Musk's plans for life on Mars are a 'dangerous delusion', says British chief astronomer                                            

Lord Rees and Neil deGrasse Tyson pour cold water on the billionaire's plans to transfer a large human population to Mars.

Musk Plan for a Million on Mars by 2050 a Delusion – Gizmodo

June 6, 2022


Even NASA isn’t expecting to land a person on Mars for close to 20 years, and establishing a colony on Mars is too daunting a task, Gizmodo says.


If Musk is as smart as he appears to be in other realms, he is bamboozling people and getting attention for this impossible idea of colonizing Mars with 1 million+ people. If he really means it, then he's completely lacking in understanding several elements that make this idea impossible. Not just challenging or unlikely but IMPOSSIBLE.

The reasons on the next page.

By metmike - Nov. 20, 2022, 2:50 a.m.
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It's very possible for a low number of humans to travel to Mars for a visit, not that much different than when we walked on the moon.

We could  ven do more than this and stay longer at enormous expense.

However, Elon Musk's insistence that he will be colonizing Mars with a million people is complete science fiction. People in this age, want to believe in things. They go to sources that tell them what they want to hear and read without using critical thinking or doing fact checking. This is another example of it. 

1. There is no atmosphere to speak of on Mars.

Here on earth, we are being told that the increase in CO2 from the minuscule amount of  0.00030 up  to 0.00042 is causing a climate crisis and at 0.0050 CO2 we will end up killing the planet.  An increase of 0.0002 or 0.02%.

That's with O2 staying at around .21 or 21%, the most important gas for humans to breathe. The amount of H2O varies on earth from very low in the deserts/poles to 0.03 or 3% in the tropics.

Mars has an atmosphere that is 99% thinner than the earth. Similar to breathing the air at 22 miles high above our surface. Basically..........NO atmosphere.

If we having such a difficult challenge at controlling the tiny amount of increase in a trace gas on this planet, how in tarnation would we be able to do something over a quadrillion times more difficult? Create an atmosphere on Mars with enough O2 for humans to breathe?

The temperature on Mars in this thin air averages -73 deg. F but can get up near +100 deg. F along the equator briefly around solar noon. That same place will drop below 0 deg. F at night in the thin air. At higher latitudes at night the temperature can drop to -100 deg. F.

Mars also has fairly high winds, averaging 10-15 mph but  sometimes up to 70 mph. They can pick up the dust and sand at the surface and create planet wide dust storms that last for months in some places.

An ok environment for humans in space suits similar to those that walked on the moon. A not ok environment for the rest of life that exists on our planet. 

Mar's atmosphere

Earth's atmosphere

2. The soils on Mars are toxic. Even if the atmosphere was great for breathing and growing plants/food, the soils are not.

To survive on Mars, humans would have to live inside greatly insulated space suits that provided protection from the extreme temperatures, filtered damaging UV rays and provided O2, while eliminating CO2. They would need a source for nutrition and way to eliminate waste. Everything would come from earth, almost none of it from Mars. Even a set up using solar cells for energy would not be viable because dust storms that block the sun on Mars can last for months.

The cost would be many millions/person in addition to the many billions(trillions?) for the space ship and equipment and energy/fuel. 

This is supposed to save our planet by reducing the population by sending it to Mars?

Sending a small number of humans for very brief visits? Yes

Sending robots for longer visits? Yes

Colonizing with large numbers of self sufficient humans? Science fiction that will never become reality. NEVER! People selling this are either delusional, lack science understanding or have some sort of self serving motivators. 

6 Technologies NASA is Advancing to Send Humans to Mars

Mars has a day and night cycle like Earth and periodic dust storms that can last for months, making nuclear fission power a more reliable option than solar power. NASA already tested the technology on Earth and demonstrated it is safe, efficient, and plentiful enough to enable long-duration surface missions. NASA plans to demonstrate and use the fission power system on the Moon first, then Mars.


Why are we spending trillions to replace fossil fuels with solar, wind and batteries if fission is such a wonderful thing???

Fission and Fusion: What is the Difference?

Why Small Modular Nuclear Reactors Won’t Help Counter the Climate Crisis

By metmike - Nov. 20, 2022, 11:18 a.m.
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From the previous page on Mars:

Colonizing with large numbers of self sufficient humans? Science fiction that will never become reality. NEVER! People selling this are either delusional, lack science understanding or have some sort of self serving motivators.

Right on cue this morning, I see the headline news is:

Nasa says humans will live on the moon by end of the decade


Previous thread on this:

                NASA capsule on way to moon             

                            Started by metmike - Nov. 17, 2022, 2:05 a.m.    


This is exactly what people in an industry say when they want more of our money:

The Cost of SLS and Orion

From its inception in 2011 through the year of its first flight, the Space Launch System rocket program has cost $23.8 billion. The Orion deep space capsule has cost $20.4 billion since the program began in 2006. Related ground infrastructure upgrades cost an additional $5.7 billion since 2012. In total, NASA spent $49.9 billion on these programs between 2006 and their first test launch in 2022.

As of 2022, NASA states that the development of the Artemis I SLS cost 42.5% more than originally projected.


metmike: This all sounds exciting but it was 1969 when we first put men on the moon. It's more than 50 years later. What have we missed, besides wasting billions of dollars every year since the program was revived?

NASA’s newest rocket is a colossal waste of money

By metmike - Nov. 20, 2022, 11:23 a.m.
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OK, back to the main topic. I should probably move the Mars/Moon thing to the thread started to discuss that.

Trump snubs Twitter after Musk announces reactivation of ex-president's account

If Trump returned to Twitter, the move would raise questions about his commitment to Truth Social, which launched on Apple’s App Store in February and Google’s Play Store in October. Trump has some 4.57 million followers on Truth Social.

Truth Social has been Trump’s main source of direct communication with his followers since he began posting on the app regularly in May. He has used Truth Social to promote his allies, criticize opponents and defend his reputation amid legal scrutiny from state, congressional and federal investigators.

His agreement with the company, however, opens the door for Trump to engage extensively on other platforms. Trump is obligated to give Truth Social a six-hour exclusive on any post – but is free to post "political messaging, political fundraising or get-out-the vote efforts" on any site, at any time, according to a May SEC filing.


Previous thread on Truth Social:


I get the need to try to have as much uncensored material available for people and let them decide.

However, our world has some serious issues that can't be ignored. The biggest one in this country is called  Donald Trump, entirely because 10s of million of people have had their brains captured by him, their cult leader.

My objective interaction with these people allows me to appreciate that this really is a real cult, using a clinical/scientific/psychological definition and they are not capable of applying critical thinking when it comes to anything Trump.

In my opinion, Trump's behavior has been criminal and he uses social media to expand  his vast mind control to perpetrate his criminal behavior and greatly harm these specific targets. And we should make note of that.......Trump specifically targets these 10's of millions of far right Rs and they are his victims.

To give Trump more power to impose his criminal mind control behavior that has done more to divide our country than any other person or action in history, is irresponsible and reckless.

Ironically, he has hurt his own party the most by an astronomical margin. Cost them the White House and also  many dozens of seats in 2018 and 2022. That's the last 3 elections. He causes intense fighting amongst the Rs and unites the Ds but only a cult leader could do all this and convince the 20 million victims that its the exact opposite with self serving behavior and disingenuous patriotism. Patriots don't do this to their country, party and people.

People need to be protected from him for the good of society. He belongs in prison but the next best thing would be to minimize his contact with gullible minds that he victimizes for his agenda.


Trump is a dangerous predator that uses the minds of people that adore him and his messages and his status as a cult leader. Protecting him and allowing him to prey on vulnerable people in the name of unimpeded freedom of speech is counterproductive because his victims don't have the "freedom to choose" as we know it.

In society, we protect the vulnerable, even when the vulnerable don't actually realize they are the victims of a predator. Even if they are the ones begging to be his victim. That's exactly the effect of a cult leader.

Objective, responsible thinking people not absorbed in their own self serving, attention getting, profit generating endeavors are best able to make good decisions on this issue. Elon Musk is not one of them.

Thomas Sowell quote: When you want to help people, you tell them the...

That last awesome quote goes for Donald Trump, Elon Musk, NASA and even climate scientists(almost all from governments and institutions that reward them with funding and grants for claiming we have a climate crisis) saying things the empower and enrich them that are NOT the truth.

By 7475 - Nov. 20, 2022, 12:35 p.m.
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Colonizing Mars ? Yes - idiotic.

 If the objective is to lower Earth's population by shipping people to another chunk of matter to stand on then why not the moon ? Might just be a bit less harsh of an environment and a lot more convenient to subsidize. Only 1/4 million miles away - 2-3 days travel. One could almost consider visiting home for the holidays !

By 12345 - Nov. 20, 2022, 1:50 p.m.
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