Well who said the Biden administration could not sink lower? They have swapped an arms dealer who specifically targeted American citizens for death for Griner. Griner is now headed back to the US. Just how crazy is this decision and the logic they used to justify. Biden says Griner was unlawfully detained, lost months of her life, spent the last few months in camps not fit for humans among lot of other non truths. She knew full well what she did, she knew the punishment, she lived like a rock star for the better part of her life and now we have traded an arms dealer for a druggy self absorbed loser. Wonder what all those people we left in Afghanistan are thinking about us now. This was a publicity stunt by the political left that I hope blows up their faces. Cannot wait for all the witty answers the ever bright press secretary will give this afternoon when the crap hits the fan about this screw up.
"druggy self absorbed loser."
Just an absurd eye rolling comment by you mcfarm.
I'd be proud to have a daughter with these accomplishments but then, I don't have Fox commentary on the brain syndrome.
you would be proud of a family member who has had every advantage crossing international boarders with drugs knowing full well what the consequences were.....but doing it anyway why? Because she has gotten away with no consequences many times. Sure seems much different than your under privileged chess players who work their butts off, get grades, and expect consequences for bad actions. Making an all-star basketball team really means little to nothing in life.
Making an all-star basketball team really means little to nothing in life.
All those lazy professional athletes that just lay around playing video games, getting high and eating cheetos all day.
Then, show up to play their easy sport against similar slobs that make a professional career out of it by eating cheetos, playing video games all day while being high.
As a self proclaimed sports authority here, mcfarm you should be well aware of what it takes to become an elite, professional athlete.
Fox has you so confused, thinking that up is down and that down is up to the point that you can't even recognize what a sports accomplishment is anymore.......after Fox casts their spell on you.
not at all sure what I have to do with fox but you just go right ahead there MM and continue make crap up out of whole cloth. Griner's story was created by one person.....she did it she fully expected to get away with it, and will come home and her story will suddenly become heroic and teach little wannbes how to do not behave...maybe she could hook up with a few other well known spoiled rotten athletes who make fools of themselves and go on a nationwide tour.
Furthermore it is really silly for you to go off on tangents like Vandy did on a daily basis. This thread was about Griner and what she pulled and Biden and what he pulled. Was it a good idea for either? What were the teaching points of either? What did either accomplish? Just how did either get to where they are today? In jail and soon to be in jail it appears. Please skip the vandy crap and post something productive and what lessons little kids may learn from these two glowing role models
"Please skip the vandy crap and post something productive"
Since YOU mentioned it......
If you really wanted actual productive posts, you've somehow missed hundreds of them the past couple of years.
Use this to help make yourself a better person!
You've made more extremely hateful posts, like this one targeting Griner and many others that often feature wild Fox news based conspiracy theories, DISinformation and COUNTER productive tunnel visioned thoughts than everybody else combined here in 2022.
The productive posts are actually here, mcfarm. You just choose to ignore them because you let Fox and the far right tell you what to think and define what a productive post is in your mind (one that lines up with your/their belief system).
I'm just following my commitments stated below, so of course I will confront others when they start threads like this one stating hateful things that are not true. Of course I will always confront that.
You don't like it, mcfarm and are giving me a hard time because you would prefer this place be an echo chamber that tells you what you want to hear/read like Fox news does.
MarketForum is the quintessential ANTI echo chamber. We debunk DISinformation and confront hate from both sides with the same amount of objective gusto, based on independent research, authentic science/empirical data/fats.
We assume that you must really know that in your heart or you wouldn't still be coming here.
Nobody is telling you what to post here.
However, let's see if the answer to these questions can help you to see what's going on.
1. Is the Pope Catholic?
2. Does a bear poop in the woods?
3. Does metmike confront people at MarketForum that attack others based on their hatred and/or when they misstate facts?
Same answer to all 3.
How you would not EXPECT #3, after it happening hundreds of times to both political sides and since it defines my posting here, is something that only you can reconcile.
Why are you attacking Griner like this with DISinformation and insisting the I should too and teach a lesson for why kids should not be like her?
The only thing that makes sense is this:
You obviously think that being openly gay is a bad role model for kids.
You won't recognize her incredible achievements because of it mcfarm.
That's the sort of thinking and behaving that's actually what hurts kids and society. Griner representing people like that in a positive way is being a GOOD role model that has ZERO to do with this incident.
Now if you want to discuss Biden NOT gaining freedom for the US Marine unjustly in prison for several years then we're on the same page.
Here's another thing. The US got a really REALLY bad deal here. We released one of the most dangerous criminals on the planet, they released a NON criminal because she had some doctor prescribed THC in her baggage that was legal in our country.
Biden's options were limited to some extent (and I'm glad that Griner was released) but think about this.
Our country is sending tens of billions of dollars to Ukraine to fund them in their fight against Russia in a war. In this role, as well as US sanctions against Russia and constant verbal attacks on Russia........the US is a MAJOR enemy of Russia.
Enemies in every sense of the word in most realms.
Russia is going to do everything possible to punish enemies and NOT give them fair deals.
There's also the problem with rewarding acts like this by Russia. If a group or country takes an American hostage and we reward them, it encourages hostage taking.
Regardless of those 2 facts, bashing Griner, who is a victim here because of not liking her personal lifestyle, displays lack of compassion and humanity.
On the bright side, maybe this will draw enough attention to Paul Whelan that we can get him out too.
Sadly, relations with Russia have deteriorated in the last year to being the worst since the cold war and this administration's incompetence leave many of us thinking that Russia will get something worth 10+ times more than what we get, so that Biden can claim a self serving political victory.
Dani Gilbert, an expert on hostage taking and recovery and a Rosenwald Fellow in US Foreign Policy and International Security at Dartmouth College's John Sloan Dickey Center for International Understanding, told Insider, before Griner's release, that her research suggests that "how someone came to be in need of assistance affects whether or not the public thinks that person should receive it."
This phenomenon, she said, is called the "deservingness heuristic."
"I think that feeds in, in a way, to the whole deservingness thing," Gilbert said. "People decide in their minds, if someone protests or has a particular political persuasion, that that suddenly means that they're not worthy of government assistance."
"What we should really be focused on is the fact that she was wrongfully detained and is sitting in Russian prison in illegitimate arrest," she added. "And that any American in that situation deserves help to come home."
Human rights lawyer Qasim Rashid said:"Republicans completely ignored it when Trump released 5,000 Taliban terrorists into Afghanistan—but are now outraged that Biden helped return Brittney Griner to the United States. I can't quite figure out why.
"If you're upset that Biden exchanged an arms dealer for Brittany Griner—but approved Trump releasing 5,000 Taliban terrorists who then took over Afghanistan—stop pretending it's national security you care about," Rashid added.
Lawyer Tristan Snell tweeted: "In late 2018, Trump released Abdul Ghani Baradar, one of the top leaders of the Taliban, along with 5000 other Taliban fighters, in exchange for... *checks notes*... nobody."
Furthermore it is really silly for you to go off on tangents like Vandy did on a daily basis. This thread was about Griner and what she pulled and Biden and what he pulled. Was it a good idea for either? What were the teaching points of either? What did either accomplish? Just how did either get to where they are today? In jail and soon to be in jail it appears. Please skip the vandy crap and post something productive and what lessons little kids may learn from these two glowing role models MM, perhaps you will try again???? Really? Trump is now part of this mess created by 2 loons??
It's about giving peace to a family that is going thru hell.
Here is a link about the most lopsided prisoner swaps in Israeli history:
They have even swapped enemy prisoners for the corpse of an Israeli soldier just to give closure to the Israeli family.
Ronald Reagan made a number of swaps that were criticized for encouraging more hostage-taking.
We value life. We don't abandon our own in enemy territory. It's that simple.
5000 Taliban... for nothing. Tribal hypocrisy is glaring.
Outstanding post joj!
your continued rationalization for having a lack of compassion and humanity for other human beings……other fellow Americans that don’t share your political ideology is digging your hole deeper and deeper.
spinning it into an absurd justification that degrades the value and accomplishments of another human being is good to express here for a huge reason.
we can use you as an example of how NOT to think If you aspire to make the world a better place and do what’s right, regardless of politics, race, religion or sexual identity.
go ahead and make it even more absurd and attack me with vandy analogies for representing humanity.
This only expands the mindset appreciation analysis further……into another powerful realm……how NOT to react if you want to be humble and open minded.
and how NOT to learn anything new that contradicts what you think that you know ….what you WANT TO believe and how to stifle personal development.
there are lessons being taught here mcfarm but not the ones that you insist on.
we don't leave our own???? What? Were either one of you guys around for Vietnam or Afghanistan pull outs?
So then you obviously agree, mcfarm, since you're using those blatant examples of egregious violations of this principle.
I realize that when people are confronted about something, that it's human nature to instinctively DEFEND their position because topics are viewed with our cognitive bias that interprets everything based on what we think that we know.
Not what is.
But learning things sometimes involves adjusting what we think that we know to... what is.
I consider you my friend mcfarm, regardless of disagreements.
Your true friends tell you the truth and expect nothing in return.
Trump is now part of this mess created by 2 loons??
Since you're not catching the similarity(big differences) or significance, mcfarm:
stated on August 29, 2021 in a CNN interview:
The Trump administration worked to free 5,000 Taliban prisoners.
2020 agreement between the Trump administration and the Taliban
A Feb. 29, 2020, agreement between the United States and the Taliban said that the U.S. and its allies would withdraw their military forces within 14 months of the agreement’s announcement. The deal said that the Taliban would not allow groups, including al-Qaida, in Afghanistan to threaten the security of the United States and its allies. It also called for negotiations between the Taliban and the Afghan government, starting March 10, 2020.
Outside of the internet, it's pretty easy to have friends that you disagree with because the "in person" relationship has bonds that are stronger than online. Friendships can be built up over years and hard to obliterate. Respect for the other visible person can deter one from saying hurtful things. People still do it but it takes more audacity to hurt the feelings of a person in front of you than to communicate harsh words on a computer screen from a key board. The keyboards, computers and internet take out much of the human connectivity element.
Internet friendships are often formed by people that share the same way of thinking...... group think and tribalism which feeds off of similarities and rejects differences. The impersonal, superficial nature with exposure to many thousands of times more people compared to offline has resulted in internet friendships being defined by words on a computer screen that can be MUCH MUCH more to the point and no worries about hurting feelings of the person at the other end, like you would in person. That absolutely includes me.
This current conversation., for instance. NEVER, would I have a conversation in person like this that confronts mcfarm. NOT A CHANCE. If he was blurting out some of these things with his strong opinion(s) and I strongly disagreed, me responding this way, then him back, then me would ELEVATE the emotions and be the recipe for a fist fight(when we were younger).
But encounters like this are an accepted impersonal part of internet relationships that makes getting along with somebody that you disagree with online, very challenging. It requires both parties to remember that there's a human being typing those words that has feelings and really wants most of the same things that you do, despite disagreements. They have mothers and daughters and families that they deeply love and want the best for just like you and I do.
They want our country to do well and those families to prosper and very importantly, they want to be respected.
I'm just reminding us of that in declaring mcfarm is still my friend even though I've dished out some harsh words confronting him in this post.
A big part of why I do this for free is taking on this role.
Vandy, came here for 1 reason....to start fights with people who disagreed with him that he hated (and took his bait) by "ruffling feathers" and I called him a predator troll for that reason. The fighting was his idea of an enjoyable experience and he sought to demean and hurt others with words because of neurotic psychological thinking that intentionally tore down MarketForum because he hated the people here.
I'm not saying this to defend myself because you all know me but to make it crystal clear to mcfarm that I'm just doing what I consider my responsibility in confronting bs in this thread and its nothing personal between us or anytime that I debunk flawed thinking/statements from others using authentic facts/evidence.
Which means the friendship does not need to suffer.
The brother of Paul Whelan, a former US Marine who has been jailed in Russia since 2018, criticized former President Donald Trump for only addressing his brother's imprisonment to attack President Joe Biden.
Former President Trump appears to have mentioned my brother #PaulWhelan's wrongful detention more in the last 24 hours than he did in the 2 years of his presidency in which Paul was held hostage by #Russia (zero). I don't suggest he cares now any more than he did then (zero)
Trump slams trade with Russia, saying, "Why wasn’t former Marine Paul Whelan included in this totally one-sided transaction? He would have been let out for the asking." Begging the question then of why Trump didn't free Whelan, who was imprisoned in 2018 during Trump's presidency