Covid-19 confusion
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Started by metmike - Feb. 27, 2023, 6:57 p.m.

New assessment on the origins of Covid-19 adds to the confusion 

      National security adviser Jake Sullivan acknowledged on CNN’s “State of the Union” on Sunday that the intelligence community is divided on the matter, while noting that President Joe Biden has put resources into getting to the bottom of the origin question.    

      The intelligence community has been split on the matter for years.           

  • In 2021, the intelligence community declassified a report that showed four agencies in the intelligence community had assessed with low confidence that the virus likely jumped from animals to humans naturally in the wild.          
  • One assessed with moderate confidence that the pandemic was the result of a laboratory accident.
  • Three other intelligence community elements were unable to coalesce around either explanation without additional information, the community’s report said.    

    Lab leak theory gains traction 

      For the better part of 2020, advocates of the lab leak theory had to fight against claims they were being xenophobic or racist — in part thanks to anti-Chinese rhetoric from then-President Donald Trump, who embraced the theory.   

      An inquiry launched by Trump’s State Department, which sought to investigate whether China’s biological weapons program could have had a greater role in the pandemic’s origin in Wuhan, was shut down early on in the Biden administration.   

      A letter from public health experts published in February 2020 in The Lancet, an influential scientific journal, also set the tone early by declaring the virus to have a natural origin.   

      But the lab leak theory has gained more traction with time, especially following reports that the intelligence community found evidence that researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology fell seriously ill with a mysterious virus in November 2019 – although it’s not clear whether they contracted Covid-19 and no further evidence has emerged to corroborate that report.    

      By July 2021, senior Biden administration officials overseeing an intelligence review into the origins believed that the lab leak theory was at least as credible as the possibility that the virus emerged naturally in the wild – a dramatic shift from a year earlier, when Democrats publicly downplayed such an idea.  

By metmike - Feb. 27, 2023, 7:06 p.m.
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Only if you believe  propaganda and absurd retarded science.

                COVID lab leak chances? 99%+            

                            Started by metmike - July 2, 2021, 10:04 p.m.                           metmike: That's my opinion.


                Re: Re: Re: Re: Just who should decide on bondaries during public health crisis?          

                By metmike - Sep. 25, 2022, 11:59 a.m.

It came from a Wahun lab that was experimenting with similar virus's and one of the scientists spread it to the community. High confidence based on facts and logical/rational thinking, common sense.

Most people reading the explanation below, will be amazed that they were able to track the origin  down to an infected, illegal  raccoon dog, sitting in a spot in a Wahun seafood/meat market to be sold for food. Of course they couldn't do that.  Originally, they claimed it was from  a bat and that it came from overseas(China stated) and several other theories) but they concocted this fairy tale using a raccoon dog because it sounds more convincing.

Why Confirming The Origin of COVID-19 Matters

 Nothing but propaganda and insisting that all the other explanations were the propaganda but this one is finally the truth........WRONG!

1.  There are 4,000,000 cities in the world. What is the chance that the 1 city with a laboratory experimenting with similar virus's, will also be the origin of COVID-19 but it did NOT come from the laboratory?  1 in 4,000,000!

2. The virology scientists and China immediately went into lying mode. Concocting tall tales about how it was brought to Wuhan from outside of China and about what their work at the lab was.

3. Only a relatively small number of insider scientists had access to the truth. They allowed all the lies to spread without contradicting them for the obvious fact. Under these conditions, what are the chances of the scientists in the lab(trust me, scientists are no more honest than non scientists-even less so in realms where they are wrong) going to acknowledge their blunder caused millions of people to die? They could go to prison for life and go down in history with a legacy of doing this to mankind.

4. We know how contagious COVID-19 is. Do you know how easy it would be for one of the scientists to catch it, then after leaving the lab, spread it to others?

5. It was awhile before we knew what was happening. The insiders knew very early on. Nothing from them, lot's of stories circulating that were mostly cover up the blame stories, except the logical one, the Wuhan lab. Now, 2+ years after all these fake stories circulated, they somehow were able to go back and pinpoint a raccoon dog sitting in 1 spot as if they have the capability to do that with this sort of confidence, years later. Almost everything about the story smells like propaganda, especially the tone of it.........telling us that the OTHER explanations were the propaganda and NOW, finally we have confirmation of the truth. Their tone of extreme confidence that THIS IS FINALLY THE REAL REASON, is the biggest indicator of it being propaganda.

6. Use your heads, man.  What makes more sense. A huge laboratory creating and experimenting with these exact virus's that have scientists that come and go every day or a raccoon dog that had some extreme biological leap take place, in the same city where the scientists work and years later was discovered by impossible to believe detective work. The so called detectives have control over what they want to incorporate into their investigation. For instance, they would have found pictures of raccoon dogs being sold at the Wuhan wet market in this time frame  and decided that was the perfect scapegoat and the picture of this one raccoon dog is the perfect evidence. Wow, out of thousands of raccoon dogs, they know that it was this one that had the biological miracle and not any of the Wuhan scientists leaving the one known  place in the world where the actual virus's like this existed.

7. If there was documentation tying these scientists to the origin of COVID and we've seen China lie at every point from the get go with certainty, those documents would likely  have been destroyed a long time ago. It's inconceivable to think that China is going to allow outside scientists into their sphere so they can discover the big cover up.

By metmike - Feb. 27, 2023, 7:16 p.m.
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You are getting to witness how scientists are flawed just like the rest of the population.

They are not a bunch of  non political, altruistic Mother Teresa's walking around in white lab coats, giving up their lives to save the planet and humanity.

There are some terrific ones for sure that have led to enormous advances in science, medicine and technology.

But many thousands of bad ones that don't practice the scientific method because of extreme bias and sometimes, corruption.

Many of those have great influence/power.

The quintessential example is the field of climate.

It was completely hijacked for a political agenda with the majority of climate scientists working for governments that pay their salary and fund their research.  

The ones with the most clout and are corrupt have convinced the rest of us that the thing that is greening up the planet, CO2 causing the best weather and climate for life in over 1,000 years and a scientific climate optimum with a booming killing the planet because it's pollution.

By 12345 - Feb. 28, 2023, 9:04 a.m.
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By metmike - March 1, 2023, 1:15 p.m.
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FBI chief says agency feels COVID pandemic likely started with Chinese lab leak


The question isn't whether COVID came from a lab leak, of course it did.

The question is why so many scientists that are experts in this field, colluded to cover it up for so long and had wild explanations they pushed on us for alternatives, some that were sold with high confidence.

By joj - March 1, 2023, 4:46 p.m.
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I'm curious.  What is the value of knowing the origin of the virus?

Does the fact that it comes from a Chinese lab somehow absolve Trump of his horrendous lack of leadership?

Anti Vax, Anti N95 masks, lie about the spread of the virus from the outset.

Are the MAGA conspiracists implying that China did this on purpose?  (ridiculous)

I'm not against knowing the origin, but I think there are other steps to be taken to prepare for the next pandemic that has little to do with the origin.

By metmike - March 1, 2023, 7:43 p.m.
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 What is the value of knowing the origin of the virus?

Thanks, joj!

1. In understanding how it was created, it helps us to prevent it from happening again. A virus created by humans and accidentally released could have been avoided with the right science/procedures.  Nature cannot be controlled.  

2. To hold the parties accountable that caused this.

3. What the heck does Trump and MAGA have to do with this, joj? 

4. Where do you see anywhere here in this thread or anywhere at MarketForum in the last 3 years that China did this on purpose being a serious consideration?  I suppose anything is possible when you speculate about something because the source is blatantly lying/covering it up but that doesn't even make good sense to me.

By metmike - March 2, 2023, 10:22 a.m.
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As mentioned countless times here,  we greatly appreciate your views here. While Gunter, Tim and mcfarm were feeding off of each other trying to turn this place into a far right echo chamber,  your views from the other side were an especially refreshing reality check that often debunked much of their crapola. 

They found out that MarketForum is and ANTI echo chamber and with regards to the moderator,  fact based truths and authentic, VERIFIED science will be represented and used to debunk DISinformation and conspiracy theories......FROM BOTH SIDES.

The current conspiracy theory about the origin of COVID is still getting getting alot of coverage at the NYT's, which has been this source for almost 3 years.

Since you pay alot of money to have them tell you the news the way that you like to read it, I completely understand this post of yours.

New Research Points to Wuhan Market as Pandemic Origin

By Carl Zimmer and Benjamin Mueller

The studies, which together span 150 pages, are a significant salvo in the debate over the beginnings of a pandemic that has killed nearly six million people across the world. The question of whether the outbreak began with a spillover from wildlife sold at the market, a leak from a Wuhan virology lab or some other event has given rise to pitched debates over how best to stop the next pandemic.

“When you look at all of the evidence together, it’s an extraordinarily clear picture that the pandemic started at the Huanan market,” said Michael Worobey, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Arizona and a co-author of both new studies.

Several independent scientists said that the studies, which have not yet been published in a scientific journal, presented a compelling and rigorous new analysis of available data.

“It’s very convincing,” said Dr. Thea Fischer, an epidemiologist at the University of Copenhagen, who was not involved in the new studies. The question of whether the virus spilled over from animals “has now been settled with a very high degree of evidence, and thus confidence.”

But others pointed to some gaps that still remained. The new papers did not, for example, identify an animal at the market that spread the virus to humans.


To an objective scientist using discerment based on REALITIES, not models, theories or speculation, like is featured in this BAD SCIENCE these are flawed scientists at their absolute  worst misleading the science community and world with speculative bunk sold as fact.

The NYT is a wonderful source for most of its professionally done articles. So is NPR, which I listen to everytime I'm in my car.

Unfortunately, most readers/listeners either don't realize their extreme bias on anything related to politics or, even more likely they intentionally go there because they have the same bias. Like almost everybody(not me), people go to sources they tell them what they want to read/hear/see.

People readily recognize the DISinformation of the OTHER side, while completely buying into the DISinformation from their side(which helps debunk the other sides lies/deception, while using the same methods to capture their sides brains).

Again, you're encouraged to post whatever it is thats on your mind and you will always be considered my friend, while I look at all sources with an open mind, as well as skepticism of sources that I use to try to filter out their potential bias.

That's the cool thing about measured empirical data. Sources can try to mislead you with interpretations of it but an HONEST scientist armed with the raw data and an understanding of how science works, can go a long way in discerning the authentic meaning, independent of the politics that tries to create DISinformation. 

By joj - March 3, 2023, 12:05 p.m.
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Thanks for the kind words.

I'm aware of the NY Times' leftward bias.  I'm also aware of the WSJ's rightward bias.  I read them both.  While biased, they don't lie.

Fox News is in an altogether different category as revealed in the lawsuit with Dominion.  Texts showed that news anchors were intentionally misleading viewers with lies about the election that they themselves knew were lies.  

I check in on now and then just to learn the pulse of the MAGA crowd.  I even look at Newsmax and Breitbart sometimes.

By metmike - March 3, 2023, 12:21 p.m.
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I've always appreciated that in you!