So what do you think? Anyone have a good argument against this?
Glad you brought this up.
I actually watched much of the show 2 times.
Missed the first 20 minutes the first time, so I tuned in from the start the 2nd time.
On the first point, I strongly disagree and made my case here:
To do like Lindsey Graham suggests would start WW-3 even faster. The US is 5,000 miles away from its mainland, off the coast of Crimea(Russian territory) gathering intelligence data to use against Russia in the crystal clear proxy war against Russia(we should stop pretending that this isn't a war-we've sent 100 billion in military equipment to Ukraine to kill Russians and beat Russia but keep pretending we aren't in the war against Russia????)
Peace time rules DO NOT APPLY. The US and Russia are at war and we were off their coast (barely in international waters) gathering intelligence data and are acting like they are out of line because of an absurd fake technicality?
On the 2nd point, I strongly agree in the most robust terms possible.
1. We have no business being over there.
2. What we're doing is causing the war to last longer and the damages to be much greater.
3. We have no end point and the war is escalating. There is no negotiating. This incident would NOT have happened if not for the US and Russia being at war. We totally provoked Russia. Russia declared war on Ukraine after Ukraine refused to negotiate after Ukraine was getting ready to become a NATO country-100% going to happen and Putin declared he would not let that happen! Then, NATO/the US declared war on Russia and pretends that just because we don't have a large number of US military on the ground that we really haven't done that. We have an embargo/sanctions and other penalties.
4. We friggin blew up their natural gas pipeline!!! That by itself is a terrorist act of war. It's ok for the US to do this to Russia and Europe without consequences, then if Russia downs a US drone gathering intelligence close to their air space..........they can' t do anything??
Hannity spent much of his show with the same rhetoric about the US being weak for not taking physical actions against Russia for them downing the drone.
Let's use critical/objective thinking by flipping the side here.
If Russia was sending 100 billion to a country we were at war with, then Russia blew up a US natural gas line to Cuba, then Russia had a drone that was gathering intelligence data about the US off the coast of Florida, barely in international waters, what American would not have supported taking the Russian drone down?
"Moscow has repeatedly voiced concern about U.S. intelligence flights near the Crimean Peninsula, which Russia seized from Ukraine in 2014 and illegally annexed.
The top U.S. and Russian defense and military leaders spoke Wednesday about the destruction of the drone, underscoring the event’s seriousness.
The Russian Defense Ministry said in its report of the call with Austin that Shoigu accused the U.S. of provoking the incident by ignoring flight restrictions the Kremlin had imposed because of its military operations in Ukraine.
The Kremlin argues that by providing weapons to Ukraine and sharing intelligence information with Kyiv, the U.S. and its allies have effectively become engaged in the war, now in its 13th month.
Such U.S. actions “are fraught with escalation of the situation in the Black Sea area,” the Defense Ministry said, warning that Moscow “will respond in kind to all provocations.”
Sorry but Russia is 100% justified based on the already mentioned CRYSTAL CLEAR/BLATANT USA acts of war against Russia.
The war has been so propagandized for us to believe that the US can do anything they want to Russia at any time or place because we are always right about everything and if Russia does the smallest thing to punch back at the US.........then it's a horrible outrage.
This is wrong and Russia has been the one exercising restraint at this point about acting to defend against the US.
Invading Ukraine is wrong of course but if that is the justification for the US to jump in independently and blow up a Russian pipeline, arm Ukraine with 100 billion to kill Russians/defense, embargo/sanction Russian goods then the US set those ground rules in the relationship, NOT Russia.
How is it that the US gets to play by the ground rules that the US has set in its war against Russia(and absurdly claim its not a US war against Russia-OF COURSE IT IS!) and Russia can't punch back against the US in any way shape or form?
Honestly, I'm surprised that Russia has shown so much restraint so far!
This last drone act was more of a defensive act, to keep a US drone from gathering intelligence data to be used against Russia.
Eventually, Putin will likely go on the offense against the US if we push it too far, since he's never going to have a sudden conversion.
Then we can expect cyber attacks that wreak havoc in the US.
Then, the threat of nuclear weapons becomes high.
All because we want Ukraine to be part of NATO and Putin refuses to let that happen.
What is the matter with people? Why is it so important to the United States for Ukraine to be part of NATO that we would do this to ourselves?
Help cause record inflation because of supply side contraints on global energy and food issues resulting from the war(and call it Putin's price hike)
Convincing false propaganda and delusional, biased politics/agenda is the problem.
Nobody does objective, critical thinking for themselves any more. They go to their favorite information sites and let the talking or printing heads tell them what to think and it's now a permanent part of the human behavior associated with modern technology that's been conditioned into us.
You know it's true.
"Nobody does objective, critical thinking for themselves any more. They go to their favorite information sites and let the talking or printing heads tell them what to think and it's now a permanent part of the human behavior associated with modern technology that's been conditioned into us. "
ALLOW ME TO REPHRASE THAT
MOST DON'T HAVE A DESIRE TO BE THE OBJECTIVE, CRITICAL THINKER. THEY NEED TO HAVE THEIR LIVES RUN FOR THEM. THANK GOD ~ I'M NOT ONE OF "THEM"!
Agreed, Jean. Thanks for generously sharing that here.
Almost every American was outraged that China would have the audacity to send a balloon to the US in order to gather intelligence data........and it's during a time of peace with them. We have their number and know they're not our friends and that's what made it so unacceptable.
But somehow, it's ok for the US to do things 1 million times worse to Russia???
This is insane hypocrisy.
1. Blow up their pipeline.
2. Send Ukraine 100 billion in weapons to kill Russians.
3. Embargo their goods and pretend that almost the entire world is on our side:
4. Spy on Russia with a drone(the type, actually that the military can use to shoot deadly missiles-described below), off their coast that can clearly gather intelligence data for many hundreds of miles away from it's position.
We should stop pretending like this drone was not EXTREMELY provoking Russia under the current environment of the US having declared a war on Russia
The same drone is also used for effective offensive military operations and is capable of doing horrendous damage:
The General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper is our military's premiere hunter-killer platform, sniping at targets from 50,000 feet in the sky. Except instead of bullets, it shoots Hellfire missiles. And with its most recent upgrades, the MQ-9 makes other drones look about as effective as Elmer Fudd.
The US said its unmanned MQ-9 Reaper drone suffered propeller damage on 14 March after two Russian Su-27 jet fighters intercepted it over the Black Sea.
The propaganda line wants you to believe that the completely harmless US drone was just minding its own business (off the coast of Crimea/Russia) and was harassed and forced down by 2 completely out of line, unprofessional Russian jet fighters who had no legit reason to be acting this way.
I'm actually surprised that they wouldn't just shoot it down and even more surprised that Russia hadn't started doing more of this, much earlier.
There was a near 0% chance of not having incidents like these with the war escalating.
Unless NATO gets their shist together and starts negotiations for peace instead of the fight Russia until they're defeated mantra.......it's gonna get MUCH worse and this incident will end up looking like a light shower before a cat. 5 hurricane hits!
21 April, 2021
Since 2014, the area that our drone was flying in, off the Crimean Peninsula has been seen differently and claimed as Russian air space.
Much of the world does not recognize it but Russia has clearly defined it as such.
The US obviously knew this. They had to be provoking the Russians. This can't possibly be accidental unless they are ignorant of clear cut facts which is impossible to imagine.
Now, they pretend as if the US was totally without blame and it's all Russia.
Facts show the complete opposite!
Following Russia’s annexation of Crimea in March 2014, the ATC Center in Simferopol has been run by Russia. Russia claims the airspace, and publishes Notams under the URFV code they invented for it. Ukraine refuses to recognise the change, and still controls the airspace under the internationally-recognised UKFV code.
So what jurisdiction do Russia have, and how much attention should we be paying to the Notams which they issue for an area of airspace that is not theirs to control?
Russia have published a long series of URFV Notams advising of danger areas and limitations to airways across the Simferopol FIR. These run from April 20-30 – some only apply from FL350 upwards; others apply to all flights from SFC right up to altitudes higher than most aircraft can fly (we saw a FL670 thrown in there). These danger areas are most likely due to military activity, which may include live firing exercises.
The zone of restriction of flights includes some areas over the southern part of Crimea, from Sevastopol to Feodosia, the territorial waters adjacent to the Southern coast of Crimea, and part of the international waters of the Black Sea
A quick plot of the danger areas published by Ukraine under the UKFV code looks something like this above
The Kremlin said it believed it had the capabilities to recover the remains of the U.S. drone that crashed into the Black Sea after a dramatic encounter with Russian fighter jets.
Earlier, Russia's ambassador to the U.S. said that Washington should "refrain from further speculations in the media landscape and stop making sorties near the Russian borders."
Speaking after his meeting at the State Department, Anatoly Antonov said: "We perceive any actions involving the use of American weapons and military equipment as openly hostile," according to a statement published on the embassy's Telegram on Wednesday.
“The unacceptable actions of the United States military in the close proximity to our borders are cause for concern,” Antonov said. “They gather intelligence, which is subsequently used by the Kyiv regime to strike at our armed forces and territory.”
Only NATO brains fried with propaganda don't get this!
Now for some propaganda trying to make it look like this is an ok thing for the US to do:
But the incident highlighted the growing tensions over the war in Ukraine, with the Kremlin eager to dissuade the U.S. from maintaining its support for Kyiv.
The clash was a sign of Russian President Vladimir Putin's "readiness to expand the conflict zone with the involvement of other parties,” Oleksiy Danilov, the secretary of Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council, said on Twitter on Wednesday. Putin was losing on the battlefield and so constantly raising the stakes “in the hope of a change in circumstances,” he said.
British Defense Secretary Ben Wallace also called on Russia to respect international airspace.
“The key here is that all parties respect international airspace and we urge the Russians to do so,” he told Reuters at a defense show in Japan.
Turkey has resisted permission for U.S. and other warships to transit the strait in recent months, they said.
Without Turkey letting us into the Black Sea, the US can't get in there, so they can't use ships to transport weapons or to try to retrieve the drone.
Russia on the other hand has free access to the area. Doesn't that tell you something?
Regardless of all this additional information, it's jaw dropping ignorance for us to be flying military drones off the coast of Crimea in Russia's backyard and absurdly expect them to not react.
Why is nobody making this obvious conclusion........I mean nobody in the US media.
But President Biden has repeatedly stressed he does not want a military confrontation with Russia. He has not sent any American troops to Ukraine, and the U.S. says it's not flying any aircraft over Ukraine.
Speaking to reporters outside the State Department, Antonov said the Russians had identified a zone for their "special military operation" and that the U.S. drone had no business being where it was.
"What will be the reaction of the United States if you see such Russian drone very close, for example, to San Francisco or New York? What will be the reaction of the United States? For me, it is clear," he said.
Russia is extraordinarily clear on this and based on their claims in the Black Sea we are completely irresponsible idiots to violate that air space.
Biden's response is that we're not flying aircraft over Ukraine????
Earth to Biden. This was the Black Sea where Russia, for extraordinarily valid reasons is very threatened by our actions there. The US, insisting that we will continue to fly in this area is another really dumb decision that is escalating the war and shows a continuation of not wanting a peaceful solution by NATO/US/Zelensky.
Just like they refused to negotiate with Russia before the war, when simply agreeing that NATO would stay out of Ukraine would have avoided all of this.
The US is the aggressor here.
This incident, then our defiant response that we plan to continue to act this way off the coast of Crimea is just another powerful example to validate Putin's position, that NATO is the aggressor.
He's wrong for invading Ukraine but NATO is proving to us every step of the way that Putin's concerns were/are very justified.
NATO has no interest in negotiating. They want a war to destroy Putin/Russia no matter how many Ukrainians have to die and how many hundreds of billions that US tax payers have to cough up for their war...........then to rebuilt Ukraine with 1 trillion+ in damages already.
Russia’s ambassador to the United States says Grahams’s calls ‘go beyond common sense’
“Does the senator seriously believe that a direct military clash with Russia is in the interests of voters who entrusted him with the care of their lives and well-being? Intentionally attacking a Russian aircraft in neutral airspace is not just a crime under international law, but also an open declaration of war against the largest nuclear power,” he said. “
So many politicians saying and doing so many insane, extremely dangerous and dishonest things, often to try to rev up their base.
We are running our country into the ground with these idiots in charge!
U.S. munitions stockpiles are rapidly being depleted as the Ukraine war continues. Sufficient stockpiles of munitions are vital to the U.S. defense. Once the stockpiles are expended, the Department of Defense cannot simply buy more munitions—manufacturing takes years. Congress and the Department of Defense must ensure that the U.S. has sufficient stockpiles to meet the challenges of the modern era while working with manufacturers to make the industry as responsive as possible.
"Lindsey Graham slammed for provoking ‘dangerous escalation’ with Russia over downed US drone"
LET'S NOT FORGET HE WAS THE RUNNING MATE OF "BOMB, BOMB, BOMB, BOMB IRAN"
(I STILL SAY HE COMMITED SEWERCIDE! THE "FIRE" GOT TOO HOT & THE WALLS WERE CAVIN' IN AROUND HIM! SOOOOOO, LIKE THE HOT SHOT CHICKEN HE ALWAYS WAS ~ HE COULDN'T TAKE THE HEAT!)
IMO ~ THE WICKED COWARDNESS, RUNS IN THE MCCAIN BLOOD.
Never McCain is a big reason for why I voted for Obama in 2008.
Never Obama was why I voted for whoever ran against him in 2012 (-:
Never Clinton in 2016.
Never Trump vs Never Biden?..........I actually got to the parking lot of the polling place to vote in 2020, still not sure who I would vote for and ended up not voting.
Think about how sad that is for an intelligent, informed, independent/non party affiliated scientist to decide on who to vote for president each year based on the lesser of 2 evils.
And I WANT to vote for the right person. The best person that can take our country in the right direction.
In 2024, I am 100% dead set on Never Biden and Never Trump as are most Americans for 1 or the other........again, so sad these are the people who we are being told will run.
I believe there is almost no chance either will because Trump will lose against everybody, even Biden.
Biden will lose against everybody.......except Trump.
How can this sad state of political affairs be happening in the greatest country of the world?
Unfortunately, it's signaling our demise with all the leadership and unity indicators going strongly in the wrong direction.
I have some problems with DeSantis but would have no problem voting for him over anybody on the other side.
Sorry, but the next president MUST be a republican to save the United States from the fake green energy schemes that will ensure with certainty, energy poverty and a collapse of the economy if they are enforced ala the fake inflation reduction act from the left and green new deal scams that are based entirely on crony capitalism, scientific corruption and political agenda.
They WRECK the planet to supposedly save it. They intentionally crush the most developed country's economies with a roll back of the Industrial Revolution, while allowing the less developed countries to do what they say will destroy the planet at several times the level which will kill the planet.
It's all right here with absolute proof.
WELLLLLL, MIKE ~ I WAS DISCUSSING 2024, THE OTHER DAY. WE GOT TO THE CONCLUSION OF: "IF BIDEN RUNS, HE WILL BE RE'ELECTED, EVEN IF THERE IS A 3RD PARTY CONTENDER."
TRY TO "GET IN THE VERY LIBERAL MINDSET" & YOU MAY ALSO COME UP WITH THE SAME CONCLUSION, AS WE DID.
I'M A "NEVER NIKKI HALEY". LOL (LORD HELP US IF SHE GETS CHOSEN FOR A VP RUNNING MATE! I DOUBT I'D VOTE, AT ALL!)
IF TODAY WERE ELECTION DAY (W/O A CHOSEN VP) ~ I'D VOTE DESANTIS. (I CAN'T HELP BUT BELIEVE THE HATERS WOULD AT LEAST ATTEMPT AN ASASSINATION ON TRUMP.)
I know nothing about Nickie Halley.
All I know for sure is that the more we impose green new deal/fake inflation reduction act policies with gusto, the more damage there will be to our economy and citizens because of the irrefutable laws of science, physics and energy that rule over the 3+ decades of scary, non verifying threats and busted global climate model projections as well as the fairy tale fake green, anti environmental promises.
Democrats are the fake green party. Wrecking the planet to save it.
Republicans are for the only authentic green energy on the planet........fossil fuels massively greening up the planet with beneficial CO2.
There are actually reasons to try to reduce fossil fuels.
The biggest is to conserve natural resources, especially so we have fossil fuels left for future generations in case they need cheap, reliable, dense and efficient sources of energy.
What energy resource in the ground does the US lead the world in by a wide margin? Coal!
So the fake green team is doing this:
14 responses |
Started by metmike - Nov. 21, 2021, 10:57 p.m.
Instead, they are promoting less efficiency energy sources that require batteries(including grid level battery technology that hasn't been invented) and massive amounts of minerals that China has an extremely dominant franchise on.
This is pure lunacy!
It would be like Babe Ruth, in his prime quitting baseball to play a sport, soccer that he wasn't any good at.
The constant "save the planet" complete bullsheet from the dangerous WOKE left cult with their junk science marketing schemes has drown out authentic EVERYTHING.
In case you don't understand my obsession with this topic........It's one of the main reasons that I'm here!
NEW: Diesel/Heating oil crisis: Closing down refineries, not building more.........EVER means an under supplied liquid fuel market and high prices forever or unless we have a severe economic pullback to kill demand. #1 problem in trucking/shipping and cause for inflation right now. This is intentional and part of the green new deal energy scam. Biden puts fingers in his ears. Draining the SPR energy security for self serving politics. November 2022 https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/90774/
Charles Payne on the economy and in particular, inflation: Biden's intentional war on fossil fuels energy disaster started by Obama. Why anti environmental and bird/bat killing wind and solar can NEVER come close to replacing fossil fuels. The cost = 433 Trillion!. Government forcing anti environmental wind/solar on the market. Stifling new investments in crude and natural gas. 2022
Life without petroleum based products: 6,000 products made with petroleum. Killing Coal. Fossil fuels and fertilizer. Biden praises high gasoline prices.
$555 billion to fight the fake climate crisis: How we generate energy. Anti environmental wind/solar/batteries. Death of the planet by greening it up(-: Climate hypocrites. Biden lays waste to free market. Impending energy train wreck.