“I assume that an Indictment from Deranged Jack Smith and his highly partisan gang of Thugs, pertaining to my ‘PEACEFULLY & PATRIOTICALLY Speech, will be coming out any day now, as yet another attempt to cover up all the bad news about bribes, payoffs, and extortion, coming from the Biden ‘camp.’ This seems to be the way they do it. ELECTION INTERFERENCE! PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT!” Trump wrote on Truth Social on Monday.
+++++++++++++++
metmike: They have 10X the evidence needed to convict an ordinary person!
Now, Trump is using his supporters(cult) to bankroll his legal fees to defend against multiple crimes and his potential presidency to try to stay our of prison.
++++++++++++++++++++++
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/97678/#97763
metmike: The ironic thing is that the democrats are watching Trump destroy his own party. They weren't the ones that tried to overturn the results of the most secure presidential election in history. They didn't violate the Constitution. It was Donald Trump that betrayed our democracy and every American and single handedly was responsible for the Insurrection(not Ray Epps). The Ds had nothing to do with Trump illegally taking CLASSIFIED documents, then refusing to return them, then trying to cover up the evidence.
+++++++++++++++++
This isn't the corrupt Mueller investigation. They clearly have much more than enough legit evidence with regards to these charges and the previous ones. His only chance is to get somebody in the Trump cult on juries because all other clear thinking people will have no choice but to convict on the extensive, very powerful evidence.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/07/legal-defense-bills-are-wiping-out-trumps-pac.html
While it remains to be seen how much Donald Trump’s mounting indictment woes will cost him politically, the legal expenses have already left his post-presidential political action committee in dire financial straits. Per a filing made Monday, Trump’s Save America PAC spent $21.6 million on legal costs defending the former president and his associates in the first half of 2023, which is about two-thirds of its overall spending during that period.
https://thehill.com/homenews/4129477-trump-indictment-watch-live-updates/
July 31, 2023
++++++++++++++++++
metmike: Charismatic, powerful cult leaders can cause people to believe in almost anything.........that always features them as infallible and having the unique ability to see things that nobody else can.
Only they can save the people(country). They know secrets and have the answers that you can only get from them........so you must follow them.
Outsiders persecuting them are evil, wanting to destroy them (they are a victim) because they represent good.
"I don’t think you fall out of love," she said.
April 30, 2019, 11:55 AM
https://abcnews.go.com/US/manson-follower-murders-loves-dont-fall-love/story?id=62708850
"I'm sure he was flying high on a cloud. Just like a joke on society," Lake said. "The media rewarded Charles Manson all this fame and notoriety."
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Once people become convinced of something, they process all new information in a way that reinforces whatever they believe and rejects all information that contradicts what they believe, including authentic facts and the truth.
https://thehill.com/homenews/4129477-trump-indictment-watch-live-updates/
https://thehill.com/homenews/4129477-trump-indictment-watch-live-updates/
Former President Trump has been charged with four offenses in the latest indictment.
They are:
— Conspiracy to Defraud the United States
— Conspiracy to Obstruct an Official Proceeding
— Obstruction of and attempt to Obstruct an Official Proceeding
— Conspiracy Against Rights
In support of those charges, prosecutors list several specific alleged actions.
Those alleged actions are:
— Attempts to get state officials to overturn the legitimate results in their states.
— Organizing or attempting to organize fraudulent slates of pro-Trump electors in “seven targeted states” — Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin
— Attempts to use the Justice Department to “conduct sham election crime investigations.”
— Attempts to pressure then-Vice President Mike Pence to use his role in the official events of Jan. 6 to subvert the legitimate election results.
— Exploiting the violence on Jan. 6 to convince members of Congress to “further delay” certification of the election results based on false claims of fraud
+++++++++++++++++++
I wanted to see what Fox was carrying on this so I watched Brett Baier, who impressed me again on his ability to see both sides. He had Trump's lead attorney on that defended his client with a delusional defense that President Trump was just expressing his First Amendment Rights as an American using freedom of speech. And that this is Joe Biden trying to take out his opponent in the upcoming election. He confronted Trumps lead attorney on this position.
I don't know anybody personally, that spent more time than me investigating and fact checking all the bs about the Big Lie and what Trump did because we had half a dozen far right posters convinced that Trump won and I had to prove it 100+ times with facts, along with showing the criminal fraud that he was perpetrating.
You'll note that most of them have moved on to echo chambers where they can read things they want to believe in.........including the lies related to Trump's crimes.
Here's a link where I posted all those thread links.
Well over 100 of them! Some I think are copied twice but I don't intend to waste my time sorting it out.
Some with double digit posts. In all over 1,000 posts based on Trump's trying to overturn the election and people here believing Trump and me completely debunking EVERY SINGLE lie with facts and truth.
But it can't change any minds that are captured by Donald Trump.
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/96365/#96366
I'll just copy the top of that post to mcfarm, since it summarizes this situation but add that this has resulted in decades long damage to the confidence Americans have in our election process(mostly Rs).
His defense that he was using his 1st Amendment rights and believed that he won and was just telling people that is the most pathetic, fake defense using the First Amendment that I know of.
There were dozens of proven fraudulent, extreme ACTIONS abusing his power as the president not just telling people he won.
He's F-ed up the R party really bad for a very long time. Divided them, embarrassed them, discredited them.
He's F-ed up our country for a long time.
You can see how bad it is when the most corrupt president in history, having serious frontal lobe deterioration, constant lying and the worst agenda, especially with regards to destroying the life blood of our economy, the energy delivery system using a fake climate crisis. Getting corrupt Ukraine obliterated, using 130 billion of US tax payer support/killing equipment, risking nuclear war..... to pay them back for the millions they gave to the Biden's ..........is actually somebody that can BEAT Trump in the general election.
This is the most insane thing in history.
The most corrupt, dishonest, delusional, lying , criminal and mentally ill R president in history will be running against the most corrupt, dishonest, delusional, lying, criminal and mentally deteriorated D president in history.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Trump tried to overturn the election results every day he was still in office after being defeated by every measure and standard in what proved to be the most secure election in history. He had some diabolical schemes that he wanted to use, including trying to use VP Pence who refused to cooperate(which is why the far right no longer likes Pence).
Trump fired up 10s of thousands of his base to come to Washington to fight for their country on Jan 6 which is THE MAIN CAUSE of the Insurrection not the absurd explanations, like Ray Epps, a so called plant of the FBI that supposedly incited a riot from the peaceful crowd to frame Mr. Victim, Donald J. Trump who was innocent and was just standing up for truth and justice after the Ds stole the election from him.
And the riots of 2020 NOT being prosecuted with gusto(which was wrong) don't give Trump and his Insurrection attempt a free pass. Are you not aware that the Capital building is different/sacred?
That the Constitution and election process that includes the smooth transfer of power based on the results defines our democracy? This is the core foundation of our country's democracy that was violently violated on Jan. 6!!
Tens of millions of far right R's are still convinced the 2020 election was stolen FROM Trump based on complete rubbish and Trump himself leading the lies.
Here's some NON Trump cult authentic objective evidence. It could be 1,000 times this and nobody in the cult would believe a word.................until Donald Trump told them to believe it.
Jesse Watters opening monologue tonight.
"This indictment is giving Donald Trump exactly what he wanted. Now, he's going to have subpoena power and be able to prove all the election fraud he claimed"
Perfect person to replace Tucker..........telling far right Rs what they want to hear for ratings.
The new Jesse Watters cult is growing fast.
These charismatic charlatans today know what to say to capture minds.
Fox has marched in guest after guest saying the same absurd things.
Trump was just exercising his freedom of speech as an American and this is Joe Biden's justice department trying to take him out.
What nonsense.
Donald Trump crystal clearly committed TREASON against the United States of America and it's people! His illegal mishandling of the classified documents are just another, less damaging example of it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason
Treason is the crime of attacking a state authority to which one owes allegiance.[1] This typically includes acts such as participating in a war against one's native country, attempting to overthrow its government, spying on its military, its diplomats, or its secret services for a hostile and foreign power, or attempting to kill its head of state. A person who commits treason is known in law as a traitor
+++++++++++++++++
According to Merriam-Webster, treason is defined as “the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance.”
++++++++++++
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-really-dangerous-territory-maybe-committed-treason-kirschner-1735394
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
https://cdapress.com/news/2023/jan/12/my-turn-trump-many-dare-call-it-treason/
Stacey Abrams, the Democratic nominee for Georgia governor, said that incumbent Gov. Brian Kemp doesn’t deserve accolades simply for refusing to go along with Trump’s efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election in the state.
“What was the alternative?” Abrams asked. “The alternative was committing treason. This was not an act of courage. He simply refused to commit treason.”
Michael Beschloss provided some historical context as to what happens to those who illegally retain and pass off nuclear information to non-U.S. entities. Think of the nuclear secrets hoarded at Mar-a-Lago. Tweeting out an image of Soviet spies Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, Beschloss wrote, "Rosenbergs were convicted for giving U.S. nuclear secrets to Moscow, and were executed June 1953" for treason.
The dictionary definition of treason is straightforward. It is “the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance.” History provides a catalogue of illustrations of treasonous acts. But rarely have we gotten so precise a play-by-play of “overt acts to overthrow the government” as has been provided by the hearings of the House Select Committee to Investigate the Jan. 6 Attack on the US Capitol. So says John Nichols in an article in The Nation titled “187 Minutes of Treason.”
+++++++++++++++++
More proof that Donald Trump is mentally ill:
Something Is Seriously Wrong with Trump
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/95084/#95119
There is no sane justification for accusing members of the House panel with “treason.” (At this point, it seems Trump thinks the definition of “treason” is “doing stuff the former president doesn’t like.”) They did extraordinary work, exposed a great many powerful truths, and established an accurate record — for the public, for prosecutors, for history, et al. — about one of the most important moments in modern American history.
The latest
https://thehill.com/people/donald-trump/
“Despite having lost, the Defendant was determined to remain in power,” the government alleges (The Hill and CNN).
Trump is charged on four counts including conspiracy to defraud the United States, conspiracy to obstruct an official government proceeding, obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding and conspiracy to defraud people of civil rights protected by federal law or the Constitution. The indictment said Trump had six co-conspirators, but it did not name them.
▪ The Hill: What to know about the six others in the indictment.
▪ The Associated Press: How the fake electors scheme became a “corrupt plan,” according to the government’s indictment of the former president.
The newest allegations add to Trump’s legal peril and scramble an extraordinary election in which the Republican Party’s frontrunner, a potential presidential nominee, has pleaded not guilty and vows to challenge witnesses and evidence in separate prosecutions brought in New York, Washington, D.C., and Florida, and possibly in a pending 2020 election probe in Georgia.
The pileup of charges has not undermined his standing with most GOP voters, according to polls. But the legal fees are ballooning and the web of trial and hearing dates will force Trump and his representatives into courtrooms this year and into the 2024 election year.
Trump lawyer John Lauro, appearing on Fox News, said the Justice Department’s indictments of the former president were weak, conflict with Trump’s First Amendment rights and are “all politics.”
▪ The New York Times analysis: Trump’s case has broad implications for American democracy.
▪ The Hill and The Associated Press: Who is the judge considering the Jan. 6 indictment?
▪ The Wall Street Journal: Trump on Thursday is scheduled to appear in federal court for arraignment in Washington, D.C.
The former president immediately dispatched fundraising emails to supporters and asserted “prosecutorial misconduct,” which he says is aimed at undercutting his White House bid to try to defeat President Biden.
It is the third time Trump has been criminally charged, following Justice Department special counsel Jack Smith’s separate prosecution for allegedly removing White House classified documents to his Florida estate, violating the Espionage Act and impeding federal demands to turn over the materials. Trump is also charged with falsification of business documents in a Manhattan case brought in March. Trump has pleaded not guilty to each set of charges.
“The attack on our nation’s Capitol on January 6th, 2021, was an unprecedented assault on the seat of American democracy,” Smith said in remarks summarizing the indictments.
That assault, Smith continued, was “fueled by lies — lies by the defendant [Trump] — targeted at obstructing a bedrock function of the U.S. government: the nation’s process of collecting, counting and certifying the results of the presidential election.”
▪ The Hill: READ the government’s indictment of Trump.
▪ The Hill: Florida Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis, reacting to the indictment of Trump by a federal grand jury based in the nation’s capital, suggested the jurors were biased and political. “Washington, DC is a ‘swamp’ and it is unfair to have to stand trial before a jury that is reflective of the swamp mentality,” the presidential candidate said in a social media post.
“The third indictment of Mr. Trump illustrates in shocking detail that the violence of that day was the culmination of a months-long criminal plot led by the former president to defy democracy and overturn the will of the American people,” they wrote in a joint statement. “This indictment is the most serious and most consequential thus far and will stand as a stark reminder to generations of Americans that no one, including a president of the United States, is above the la
++++++++++++++++
In my opinion, yesterday was the saddest day in the history of the R party.
Trump gets hit with all these deserved charges for what amounts to treason, extreme abuse of his presidential powers and betraying the American people and his obligation to our Constitution. That already happened well over 2 years ago.
However, YESTERDAY we had the reaction on Fox and all the other far right entities which made this such a pathetic day in history.
All of them vigorously defending Trump. Claiming that he was only exercising his First Amendment rights and Freedom of Speech. That this is purely political and that Donald Trump is the victim.
This takes the delusional insanity to another new level. We are clearly headed into a period of increasing chaos in this country.
My wife, Debbie doesn't like it when I report all this stuff to her(especially on the war in Ukraine and the fake climate crisis). Very stressful.
Some people do best by trying to ignore realities or ignoring the news around them that they can't do anything about. That's one way to cope.
For me, I will not lose a minute of sleep over all this diabolical stuff going on in our world. I prefer, instead to be incredibly fascinated by the unprecedented /extreme nature and study it. Analyze it and interpret it. Come to understand the objective truths and share that here.
We are making history right now in 2023. Unfortunately, it's all bad stuff(Trump, Biden, Ukraine, fake climate crisis). Regardless, it's all unprecedented and children not born yet will read about it in the history books............if we don't get destroyed by a nuclear war, that is )-:
However, the reasons for this to be happening are not to be ignored.
Not one of these events had to happen or were inevitable.
We live in the age of powerful communications that control people's thoughts. Humans have always had some level of cognitive bias, which causes them to embrace things that they want to believe and reject what contradicts.
But the enormous advancement in technology has resulted in a million+ times more information and sources to access what we want to believe in. Humans thinking has literally evolved to exploit this.
Nafarious sources/charlatans understand completely how the human brain works and they exploit this to the max by manufacturing convincing sounding false narratives, DISinformation, junk science and so on that states what people want to believe in.
Entities with common interests collude with each other to send out the same bogus stuff, so that it's especially effective. And the technology makes it incredibly powerful.
Like with the classical religions, Christianity, Judaism and Islam we have the same mentality being projected on to today's huge issues. Where people form a political belief system that is based almost entirely on faith and mostly on what their high priest political sources tell them, not that different than actual cults in many cases.
We have:
Climate religion:
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/95151/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/94557/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/97710/
Trump religion: https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/96365/#96367
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/96365/#96370
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/97678/#97689
Biden religion: https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/97588/#97602
Ukraine war propaganda: https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/97707/#97807
At least one side in all those cases, clings to unwavering beliefs that by design, can only get stronger because the believers, strictly adhere to the religious principle. They only believe in things that confirm what the religion's tenets define as their truth. So they go to places to reinforce that to hear/read what they want to believe. And you have people on both political sides doing that which just increases the divide. The gate keepers of both sides know what to say to remain in power...........what people want to hear. Or for them to be enriched with power or money.
The power to capture brains has been amplified by several orders of magnitude using today's technology, especially on the internet and by the media.
++++++++++++++++++++++
Worrying about it won't do anything except make it worse. Hating people just punishes the hater, so instead, I'll just focus on stuff like this to maintain a positive attitude. Please join me!
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77019/
https://www.marketforum.com/forum/topic/77011/
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/02/opinion/trump-election-lies-free-speech.html
Perhaps most striking, Trump has used his propaganda as a tool to mobilize a MAGA coalition that has taken on the characteristics of a religious sect, affirming its adherents’ belief in Trump’s false claims. For these loyalists, acquiescing to those claims has become a badge of membership in the Trump coalition.
In an essay published Tuesday night on Slate, “U.S. v. Trump Will Be the Most Important Case in Our Nation’s History,” Hasen wrote:
Trump did not just state the false claims; he allegedly used the false claims to engage in a conspiracy to steal the election. There is no First Amendment right to use speech to subvert an election, any more than there is a First Amendment right to use speech to bribe, threaten, or intimidate
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/08/trump-trial-2024-historic-jack-smith-indictment.html
++++++++++++++++++
This is where I feel that Trump's "freedom of speech" defense will fail miserably.
1. He went way beyond just expressing his opinions. He put into place numerous devious schemes in the states that he lost to try to overturn the results. This is well beyond just verbalizing, using his freedom of speech.
2. Supposedly, him thinking that he really did win is a defense. This one is even more lame. He was told repeatedly by the majority of credible people that he lost but even if he decided to not believe them...........that doesn't entitle him to violate the Constitution and trying to overturn the election. Anymore than a person that is convinced their bank made a $10,000 mistake in their account has the right to rob the bank and be found not guilty because that person really believed the bank owed them $10,000.
3. Fox and others censored the Jan.6th hearings, so most Trump supporters don't even know about all the powerful evidence they found. 1 piece of evidence that comes to mind at the moment is that Trump ordered that the metal detectors not be used on the crowd to check for weapons(which is ALWAYS part of the protocol). He said "they aren't here to hurt me". This can only be interpreted as Trump taking steps so that his people would be armed. He pretends to have been only telling them to be peaceful, which is a lie. He told them they "needed to fight for our country", then after the riot had been underway for some time, only called them off after it became obvious that it had failed.
There is several times more evidence needed to convict him and completely debunk the defense tactic above. I get an extremely strong feeling that this "freedom of speech" narrative is being used just to connect to Trump's base because the vast majority of Rs don't even know what all the powerful evidence is. I watched Fox during the Jan 6th hearings. They didn't show any of the massive amount of legit evidence and rarely showed any of the hearings. When they did, it was small pieces of it in order to twist it and create completely false narratives about what they actually showed that day. Some of the most dishonest television that I've watched in my life. Basically brainwashing and lying to their viewers about the actual facts.
If you're a Fox viewer, no wonder you think the way that you do.
The network earlier this year agreed to pay Dominion Voting Systems $787 million to settle claims of defamation brought by the company for airing false claims about its software being promoted by Trump and his allies after the 2020 election
+++++++++++++
The reason Fox viewers think that is because Fox News told them to think that way with blatant lies and censorship of the truths.......messages their viewers wanted to hear and believe. I watch Fox a great deal. I witnessed it first hand.
A small piece of justice took place with the Dominion decision holding them accountable for THOSE lies. But profound damage has been permanently done to all the Fox viewers on anything related to this topic.
