US China relations
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Started by metmike - Sept. 15, 2023, 10:35 p.m.

We should not choose to fight a war with China if they invade Taiwan

Others argue we must fight, even if we don’t want to, because the catastrophic cost to the global economy if China attacks (especially in terms of semiconductors) would devastate the U.S. economy. What those advocates fail to recognize, however, is that the impact to the world economy is baked in when the first Chinese missile strikes the island or the first Chinese soldier invades. From that point forward, there will be no changing the harmful economic impact. What we must avoid at all costs, however, is deeply compounding that cost to America by also choosing to engage in a war that would cripple our Air Force and Navy.

 By refusing to be drawn into a war with China in an otherwise horrible situation, the United States would have an enormous power advantage over China. The American military would still be unharmed and at full strength, while the People’s Liberation Army would be severely degraded by any attempt to penetrate Taiwan’s defenses. It could take China more than a decade to recover from its losses. We would have the unchallenged upper hand, both regionally as well as globally. Our national security would remain fully within our ability to guarantee. 

Choosing to allow righteous anger to drive our response — which many Americans would understandably feel if China attacked Taiwan — could plunge us into a war that would, in the best case, severely diminish our ability to defend our country. In the worst case, it could lead to a nuclear exchange in which entire American cities could be wiped out. 

As much as we would hate to see China capture Taiwan, nothing on that island is worth risking America’s entire national security. 

Daniel L. Davis is a Senior Fellow for Defense Priorities and a former Lt. Col. in the U.S. Army who deployed into combat zones four times. He is the author of “The Eleventh Hour in 2020 America.” Follow him @DanielLDavis1.


I agree strongly with these views! The risk/reward is extremely distorted to the risk side But not just risk. The REALITY   of the consequences that would happen for sure outweigh all potential benefits by a wide margin.

However, the Military/Industrial complex has been controlling our extremely bad foreign policy decisions for decades and the our war with Russia, using Ukraine is just another example of how everything goes wrong and nothing right when that happens. We've already driven North Korea and China to align with Russia (as well as numerous other countries leaning that way) because of the worst foreign policy in history. An additional war with China would be  political and economic suicide and could be the permanent demise of the United States from its position of global power in several categories.

By metmike - Sept. 15, 2023, 10:46 p.m.
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China Proposes Fantasy Alternative to Major War With Taiwan


The newly unveiled plan, aimed at achieving “complete reunification” with Taiwan, has already been slammed as “ridiculous.”


Regardless of how absurd this might be to many or what WE want, using our military to get into, yet another quagmire on the other side of the planet would be idiotic and  show we've  still not learned a thing, even with a dozen MAJOR lessons teaching us to STOP doing this.

American imperialism

Enlargement of NATO-below


American Imperialism and the Crisis in Ukraine

By metmike - Sept. 15, 2023, 11:03 p.m.
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This bs has got to stop!

Mapping U.S. Imperialism

U.S. imperialism is the greatest threat to life on the planet, a force of ecological devastation and disaster impacting not only human beings, but also our non-human relatives. How can we organize to dismantle the vast and complicated network of U.S. imperialism which includes U.S. war and militarism, CIA intervention, U.S. weapons/technology/surveillance corporations, political and economic support for dictatorships, military juntas, death squads and U.S. trained global police forces favorable to U.S. geopolitical interests, U.S. imposed sanctions, so-called “humanitarian interventions,” genetically modified grassroots organizations, corporate media’s manipulation of spontaneous protest, and U.S. corporate sponsorship of political repression and regime change favorable to U.S. corporate interests?

This article deals with U.S. imperialism since World War 2. It is critical to acknowledge that U.S. imperialism emanates both ideologically and materially from the crime of colonialism on this continent which has killed over 100 million indigenous people and approximately 150 million African people over the past 500 years.

The exact death toll of U.S. imperialism is both staggering and impossible to know. What we do know is that since World War 2, U.S. imperialism has killed at least 36 million people globally in Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Indonesia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, the Congo, Chile, El Salvador, Guatemala, Colombia, Haiti, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, Chad, Libya, East Timor, Grenada, Honduras, Iran, Pakistan, Panama, the Philippines, Sudan, Greece, Yugoslavia, Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo, Somalia, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, and Palestine (see Appendix).

This list does not include other aspects of U.S. imperialist aggression which have had a devastating and lasting impact on communities worldwide, including torture, imprisonment, rape, and the ecological devastation wrought by the U.S. military through atomic bombs, toxic waste and untreated sewage dumping by over 750 military bases in over 80 countries. The U.S. Department of Defense consumes more petroleum than any institution in the world. In the year of 2017 alone, the U.S. military emitted 59 million metric tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, a carbon footprint greater than that of most nations worldwide. This list also does not include the impact of U.S. fossil fuel consumption and U.S. corporate fossil fuel extraction, fracking, agribusiness, mining, and mono-cropping, all of which are part and parcel of the extractive economy of U.S. imperialism.

Appendix: The Death Toll of U.S. Imperialism Since World War 2

  • Afghanistan: at least 176,000 people
  • Bosnia: 20,000 to 30,000 people
  • Bosnia and Krajina: 250,000 people
  • Cambodia: 2-3 million people
  • Chad: 40,000 people and as many as 200,000 tortured
  • Chile: 10,000 people (the U.S. sponsored Pinochet coup in Chile)
  • Colombia: 60,000 people
  • Congo: 10 million people (Belgian imperialism supported by U.S. corporations and the U.S. sponsored assassination of Patrice Lumumba)
  • Croatia: 15,000 people
  • Cuba: 1,800 people
  • Dominican Republic: at least 3,000 people
  • East Timor: 200,000 people
  • El Salvador: More than 75,000 people (U.S. support of the Salvadoran oligarchy and death squads)
  • Greece: More than 50,000 people
  • Grenada: 277 people
  • Guatemala: 140,000 to 200,000 people killed or forcefully disappeared (U.S. support of the Guatemalan junta)
  • Haiti: 100,000 people
  • Honduras: hundreds of people (CIA supported Battalion kidnapped, tortured and killed at least 316 people)
  • Indonesia: Estimates of 500,000 to 3 million people
  • Iran: 262,000 people
  • Iraq: 2.4 million people in Iraq war, 576, 000 Iraqi children by U.S. sanctions, and over 100,000 people in Gulf War
  • Japan: 2.6-3.1 million people
  • Korea: 5 million people
  • Kosovo: 500 to 5,000
  • Laos: 50,000 people
  • Libya: at least 2500 people
  • Nicaragua: at least 30,000 people (U.S. backed Contras’ destabilization of the Sandinista government in Nicaragua)
  • Operation Condor: at least 10,000 people (By governments of Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, Bolivia, Brazil, Ecuador, and Peru. U.S. govt/CIA coordinated training on torture, technical support, and supplied military aid to the Juntas)
  • Pakistan: at least 1.5 million people
  • Palestine: estimated more than 200,000 people killed by military but this does not include death from blockade/siege/settler violence
  • Panama: between 500 and 4000 people
  • Philippines: over 100,000 people executed or disappeared
  • Puerto Rico: 4,645-8,000 people
  • Somalia: at least 2,000 people
  • Sudan: 2 million people
  • Syria: at least 350,000 people
  • Vietnam: 3 million people
  • Yemen: over 377,000 people
  • Yugoslavia: 107,000 people


This doesn't even count the 500,000+ dead in Ukraine because of our war with Russia, using Ukrainians to fight it.

You might wonder how in tarnation Americans put up with the decades of American sponsored atrocities around the world??? Our tax dollars and the U.S. Military- Industrial complex is responsible for most of this.

WAR PROPAGANDA! DISinformation about all these situations to justify our relentless Imperialism! Ukraine is just the latest one.

Tawian cannot be the next one.

By metmike - Sept. 15, 2023, 11:15 p.m.
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China sees ‘Cold War mentality’ in US-Vietnam pact, Vietnamese disagree

Pulled in opposite directions by Washington and Beijing, everyday Vietnamese people say staying neutral is best

By metmike - Sept. 16, 2023, 8:58 p.m.
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Analysis-Upheavals in Xi's World Spread Concern About China's Diplomacy

September 16, 2023

As Xi, China's commander-in-chief has focused inward, he caused concern among foreign diplomats this month by missing a Group of 20 summit in India, the first time he has skipped the global leaders' gathering in his decade in power.  Faced with the growing uncertainties, some diplomats and analysts are calling for a hard look at the true nature of Xi's regime.


China, India set to snub Cop27 leaders’ climate summit

Missing those meetings was an extremely profound BAD signal coming from China. Their objectives are going in the opposite direction of ours. The jaw dropping ignorant foreign policy of the United States has forced Russia, China, North Korea, all adversaries (and others) to bond together.

But the main problem is China by a huge margin.

I'm not making a case below, that China's massively increasing CO2 emissions are harming the planet. Just the opposite because CO2 is a beneficial gas.

The profound point is that China KNOWS that  we are full of shist and is totally ignoring it for the best interest of their country. Their leader is not fooled like Americans about the fake climate crisis or war in Ukraine. He sees our government bamboozling Americans and West with completely fraudulent principles based on junk science and propaganda. .....because that's exactly what we are doing in OUR VERY CORRUPT GOVERNMENT(POLITICIANS). While at the same time, our propaganda vilifies China for their atrocities.

This is the recipe for creating an adversary, NOT creating a mutually respectful friendship/agreements. It's the United States causing most of this NOT China!

Specifically, its the catastrophically, worst foreign policy in the history of our country with this current administration which is responsible for most of this.

Including the fact that before Biden took over, the chance of nuclear war was near 0. Now, we have elevated, significant odds of nuclear war that could even start by accident and a president that refuses to consider negotiating. Only an endless ground war, using Ukrainians/Ukraine and our weapons to weaken Putin......all he cares about.  

We are struggling with our war with Russia on the other side of the world. What will happen if China does what looks increasingly likely……on the other side of the world??

 We've just gifted China with  the perfect opportunity to take control of Tawian because of our blunderous foreign policy(s) and zero credibility/respect earned from China.

I‘m not pro Russia or pro China. Their leaders and government are horrible. But we can’t control the entire world.

We should, instead focus our attention on cleaning up our own blatant corruption and extremely flawed leadership and stop with the audacity  and hypocrisy of  trying to impose our bs on other countries.

China’s new coal power spree continues as more provinces jump on the bandwagon

"joe Biden did nothing wrong, the Rs are just being political"

"joe Biden did nothing wrong, the Rs are just being political"